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Author Topic: CP Naruhito & CP Masako - NEWS  (Read 167294 times)
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ChiaraC

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« Reply #90 on: May 07, 2012, 03:48:28 PM »

Well, I don't feel the slightest amount of sympathy for the plight of a group or structure that is in this predicament because it deems females valueless.  I consider it karma.  
Yeah, maybe that is the revenge of the ancient sun goddess Amaterasu, the mythical ancestress of the imperial family...    Laugh bounce

Surely there will come a point where this very vocal minority will die out.  Does anyone think that people born after, say 1970 would really think this way regarding male succession only?

Unfortunately, yes, I, for one, happen to think that. In this context, I always use to quote this BBC article that was written after Hisahito´s birth. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h.../asia-pacific/5319250.stm There, two young Japanese from either side of the debate react to the birth and discuss the security of Japan's imperial succession. One is a young woman. She says (not surprisingly), “In a way, this is a disappointment. While I am happy the baby is healthy, I would have liked to see a woman ascend the throne. I was looking forward to Japan's chance to modernise.“ The other, a 24-year-old financial trader says, „I am very pleased about the news.... I would like to see the laws of succession changed, but not to allow female succession. I would like to see the laws changed to ensure more security for the male succession. It would be very difficult to constantly ensure a male heir without the use of royal concubines, but in today's world there are obvious complications with that. Yet it's what used to happen.... I don't feel content with just the one male heir. I would like Crown Prince Naruhito to make a further effort to have one more. The mass media are very afraid to convey any bad message to the imperial family especially when Princess Masako is very ill. But it would make the line more secure and reassure the Japanese public.”

(You have to be aware that Japanese will usually not express potentially controversial opinions and if they do, they will do it in an indirect way. So I am rather sure that what this young man is actually proposing is that the crown prince should take a concubine to have an heir...)

Another example would be Tsuneyasu Takeda, a member of a former collateral branch. He must be 36 years by now and is one of the main proponents of the idea to restore the former princely houses or to allow the imperial family to adopt males from those families. To promote this plan, he has written a book entitled The Untold Truth of Imperial Family Members. You know I am not fond of Prince Akishino, so it will probably give you a certain idea if I tell you that imo, compared to Takeda, Akishino is a heavenly blessing. Takeda´s essay “Did the Emperor of Japan really fall from being a ruler to a symbol?” won the Grand Prize in the “True Interpretations of Modern History” essay contest. The name of this contest is truly Orwellian and to characterize it, I have to mention that its winner of the year before Takeda, Toshio Tamogami, chief of staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force was dismissed because of his prize-winning essay. You have to bear in mind that Japan is a conservative country and that leading politicians like former trade minister Takeo Hiranuma, apparently without damaging their reputation, will say things like, „If Aiko becomes the reigning empress, and gets involved with a blue-eyed foreigner while studying abroad and marries him, their child may be emperor. We should never let that happen.“ So, if Tamogami was dismissed because of his essay you can imagine how extreme its content must have been. Among other things he said in it that "it is a false accusation to say (Japan) was an aggressor nation" during World War II and that it was rather drawn into the war by Chiang Kai-shek and Franklin D. Roosevelt, who had allegedly been manipulated by the Comintern.  Roll Eyes The essay also argues that the war brought prosperity to occupied China, Taiwan and Korea (!!! they are still falling over themselves for
gratitude... Angry), that "it is often those who never directly saw the Japanese military who are spreading rumors about the army's act of brutality" and that the Greater East Asia War is viewed in a positive way by many Asian countries. (Yeah, sure that is why they are so enthusiastic about the Japanese prime minister visiting Yasukuni.  Roll Eyes ) Tamogami also criticized the war crimes trials which followed the war. That was even too much for prime minister Taro Aso (really no leftist at all and himself a vocal opponent of female succession) who called Tamogami decision's to write this essay "extremely inappropriate".
Well, in the next year it was young Takeda who won this marvellous prize with his aforementioned essay...  Whistle The sponsor of the contest, a prominent businessman called Takeda “the chosen one”  Roll Eyes (seriously!).
So, I am sorry to say it, but there are quite a few “young dinosaurs” in Japan, so to speak.  Do not feed the troll

As I recall, before Hisahito was conceived, there were some calls, from this very vocal and very conservative minority to bring back concubines!   Crazy
From what I read, most in Japanese government who would not go for that - did not want the rest of the modern world to think Japan was that backwards.  Any truth to that?

Actually, it was a member of the imperial family, Prince Tomohito of Mikasa, who proposed it although imperial family members are supposed to absolutely refrain from commenting on political matters. (Neither the emperor nor the crown prince have ever publicly given an opinion.) "I wholeheartedly support it," the prince wrote about a revival of the concubine system, "but I think that the social mood inside and outside the country may make it a little difficult." This proposal was never seriously considered but it changed the atmosphere - for worse. http://www.taipeitimes.co...s/2005/12/29/2003286524/2

Quote
Hiroyuki Yoshikawa, chairman of the succession advisory panel and president of the National Institute of Advanced Industry, Science and Technology, admitted to being 'very unhappy' at the prince's comments. 'It is quite possible that they would have an influence on society's thinking but they were beyond the scope of our discussions,' he said. In the month since the report was submitted to the government to be examined, Professor Yoshikawa has been permanently accompanied by two bodyguards. His report is unpopular in right-wing circles, which have in the past attacked individuals who do not show what they believe is the appropriate amount of respect to an institution many still believe is headed by a demigod.
Prince Tomohito's comments are encouraging these groups' opposition, the professor believes. And now he fears for his safety.

'This outburst, I think, took the Japanese by surprise because it's very clearly an honest outpouring of the prince's personal feelings, but I also think it shows how a quintessential member of the Imperial Household like him is so completely out of touch with reality,' said Noriko Hama, a professor at Kyoto's Doshisha University. 'It looks as if he is panicking because all that he has ever believed in and upheld was wrapped up in the imperial family and the Japanese nation, and now he sees it crumbling before his eyes,' he said. 'It seems he does not think very highly of the Crown Prince or the Crown Princess because he sees them as modernisers. 'He has obviously had a very different upbringing in a very different era and he sees himself as the last line of defence of the male line being continued in the imperial family,' he said, adding that a clear family feud was occurring behind the palace walls between those who wish to bring the monarchy into the modern era and those fighting to keep it untouched and untouchable.
http://www.scmp.com/porta...60a0a0aRCRD&s=Archive
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ChiaraC

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« Reply #91 on: May 07, 2012, 03:57:26 PM »

At the end of the day, abolition of Japanese monarchy means one less thing for us to gossip about on message boards, but for the family itself, it might be a release from prison.  It also permits Japanese government to get on with what should be their real business - governing and protecting the people.

The problem is that is exactly this what the government is not doing - and it is not because they are so busy with changing the Imperial Household Law, mind you. As I said before, pretty much alone among public institutions, the imperial family has performed flawlessly since the disaster of 3/11. It is true that you do not necessarily need an emperor to speak the truth and address the real problems. But if you have one who is doing it when nobody else is doing it, why abolish him? Obviously, this would not be in the best interest of the nation. If I may again quote the above mentioned article:

Quote
Japan in Uproar Over Censorship of Emperor's Anti-Nuclear Speech
Why did Japanese TV channels cut Emperor Akihito's address on the one-year anniversary of the Fukushima crisis?

[...] Unlike Prime Minister Noda, who never mentioned the nuclear crisis in his speech on the anniversary, the Emperor addressed it directly.

Quote
As this earthquake and tsunami caused the nuclear power plant accident, those living in areas designated as the danger zone lost their homes and livelihoods and had to leave the places they used to live. In order for them to live there again safely, we have to overcome the problem of radioactive contamination, which is a formidable task.

While this statement may seem more obvious than radical to outsiders, underneath the Imperial-grade Japanese understatement were two ideas that have become quietly explosive. First, he seemed to suggest that the nuclear crisis is not over, a "formidable task" yet to be overcome. This noticeably contradicts the government's official stance that Fukushima has achieved a cold shutdown and, for all practical purposes, the crisis is over. Second, it implies that it is not yet safe for people to return to areas stricken with high levels of radiation, at least not before the "formidable task" is "overcome." This, again, contradicts the government's position that it is now safe for people to return to almost all areas and that neither Tokyo Electric Power Company nor the national government are obliged to assist in long term evacuations. [...]

Many skeptics in Japan suspect that the country's enormous nuclear energy industry, which is famous for its influence over Japan's politics and which has seen its business come to a near-standstill over public fears, may have played a role. After all, Tokyo Electric is one of Japanese TV's largest sources of revenue, and is tightly linked to the Japanese government, which sponsors some media here.
The Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.co...ti-nuclear-speech/255025/

At present, I am all for maintaining the Japanese monarchy, for the sake of its emperor and crown prince. Not to please them - I am not sure how much job satisfaction they are actually getting - but because they are both remarkable individuals who are serving their country well - unlike the huge majority of its political elite.  Real mad
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« Reply #91 on: May 07, 2012, 03:57:26 PM »


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Diogenes
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« Reply #92 on: May 07, 2012, 05:17:58 PM »

What's the age demographic of the ultraconservatives?
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Chris

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« Reply #93 on: May 07, 2012, 06:27:00 PM »



The princesses are lovely young women. What a tragedy that their family and their country don't fully appreciate them.

What's even more telling, IMO, is that the present emperor's daughter doesn't appear anywhere on the chart.  Even the dead people get an asterisk!  Because she's married, she's been airbrushed out of the family.  Anyone who doesn't know of her existence would think that the present emperor had only two children.  I wonder how that makes her feel...or how it makes her mother feel?
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ChiaraC

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« Reply #94 on: May 07, 2012, 06:34:35 PM »

What's the age demographic of the ultraconservatives?

“Ultraconservative” is not a clearly defined term. I usually use it for people (in Japan) who are politically positioned right of the LDP. Usually, the LDP is described as center-right. (This could also be open to debate. But I´ll just leave it at that as we are not discussing Japanese politics here.) The LDP has run the country for over 50 years. A 2001 article in the Guardian described it as follows: “The Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) is the most successful money- and vote-gathering political machine in the postwar world. As unyielding as any of the cold war communist regimes, it is neither economically liberal nor politically democratic, but has ruled for all but one of the past 46 years. Inside the party, a Byzantine factional system has ensured that power is exercised behind the scenes by a handful of „shadow shoguns“.“ In 2009 elections the LDP was finally defeated by center-left party DPJ which rules until today.

The first one who made an attempt to change the succession law was the charismatic LDP prime minister Junichiro Koizumi. A 10-member advisory council was set up in late 2004 to advise the prime minister on revising the Imperial House Law. In November 2005, it produced a report recommending that female emperors and their descendants be allowed to ascend the throne, and the emperor's eldest child, regardless of sex, should be given „priority as the imperial heir.“ The majority of Koizumi´s party LDP (that is as I said center-right) supported this attempt. But there was a minority who opposed it. Those I would call “ultraconservative”. Of course, it is not only this opinion that characterizes them. They belong to a larger nationalist movement that seeks a tougher stance against China and North Korea, presses aggressively for a revisionist history of Japan’s wartime past, and pushes the myth of Japanese racial exceptionalism. Those people contend that the Nanking Massacre was vastly exaggerated, that Japan invaded continental Asia to liberate it and that Japan was tricked into war by the United States. Obviously, they would not call themselves “ultraconservative”, they would just say that they simply know what is right for Japan... Roll Eyes

One clear example for an ultraconservative would be Takeo Hiranuma, the former LDP trade minister who was so concerned about Princess Aiko possibly getting “involved with a blue-eyed foreigner.” He left the LDP after it lost its majority in the 2009 House of Representatives elections. In April 2010, he and several other politicians established a new political party, the nationalist right-wing Sunrise Party (Tachiagare Nippon, literally “Rise up, Japan!”). Hiranuma, whom Japan-blogger Michael Cucek once called “the Sith Lord of Japanese politics,” advocates historical revisionism regarding the Nanking Massacre. In 2010, he insulted a fellow Diet member with whose opinion he happened to disagree as being “not originally Japanese” (because of her Taiwanese father). Hiranuma is the adopted son of Baron Kiichirō Hiranuma, a prominent pre-World War II right-wing Japanese politician who served as one of the unofficial senior advisors to Emperor Hirohito during the war and was later convicted as a Class A War Criminal.

That is the only answer I can really give to your question: it seems that these convictions are being passed on from father to son. That means that their proponents do not belong to a specific generation, according to my impression at least. But whatever their age, they are clearly a minority – Hiranuma´s “Sunrise Party”, for example, got 2.11% proportional votes in the 2010 Japanese House of Councillors election. They wield much more power than can be justified, in my opinion, considering that they are so few. (That is part of what I meant when I said that the atmosphere in Japan is in some respects not very democratic.)
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ChiaraC

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« Reply #95 on: May 07, 2012, 06:46:36 PM »

What's even more telling, IMO, is that the present emperor's daughter doesn't appear anywhere on the chart.  Even the dead people get an asterisk!  Because she's married, she's been airbrushed out of the family.  Anyone who doesn't know of her existence would think that the present emperor had only two children.  I wonder how that makes her feel...or how it makes her mother feel?

In fact, there are many imperial daughters who are left out in the chart. Akihito has/had five sisters. (Two are still alive.) Prince Mikasa has two daughters, in addition to his three sons.
On the other hand, the princesses are relatively free to come back frequently and visit their parents. When Akihito was in hospital for his heart surgery, his wife as well as his married daughter were with him. Commoner women who marry in have it much more difficult in this respect because they are really hardly ever allowed to see their parents. Empress Michiko had to secretly smuggle herself out of the palace in order to visit her dying mother in hospital.
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Miss Waynfleet

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« Reply #96 on: May 07, 2012, 07:13:56 PM »

What's even more telling, IMO, is that the present emperor's daughter doesn't appear anywhere on the chart.  Even the dead people get an asterisk!  Because she's married, she's been airbrushed out of the family.  Anyone who doesn't know of her existence would think that the present emperor had only two children.  I wonder how that makes her feel...or how it makes her mother feel?

In fact, there are many imperial daughters who are left out in the chart. Akihito has/had five sisters. (Two are still alive.) Prince Mikasa has two daughters, in addition to his three sons.
On the other hand, the princesses are relatively free to come back frequently and visit their parents. When Akihito was in hospital for his heart surgery, his wife as well as his married daughter were with him. Commoner women who marry in have it much more difficult in this respect because they are really hardly ever allowed to see their parents. Empress Michiko had to secretly smuggle herself out of the palace in order to visit her dying mother in hospital.


What is wrong with them? 
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Chris

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« Reply #97 on: May 07, 2012, 07:28:21 PM »

Empress Michiko had to secretly smuggle herself out of the palace in order to visit her dying mother in hospital.
What is wrong with them? 

It does sound a lot like a creepy science fiction movie, doesn't it? 
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Bozhidara

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« Reply #98 on: May 07, 2012, 08:02:02 PM »

ChiaraC, thank you again for your posts. They are very interesting.

Do you know anything about the emperor's daughter? Since she got married I have not found any information about her. I assume that she does not work and is stay at home wife/mother. Does she have children?
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Amina

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« Reply #99 on: May 07, 2012, 08:23:01 PM »

Chiara C - we are indebted for you for all your info.  As for the Ultraconservatives.  So fustrating that they are so stubborn and stuck in their ways.  Can't they see that their way of thinking may end the monarchy.

Looks like this debate about Princesses in the JRF and girls being allowed to inherit will run and run.

Hopefully Princess Aiko's future daughter in law will have boys and girls.
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BessieWallis Warfield

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« Reply #100 on: May 07, 2012, 09:08:47 PM »

Empress Michiko had to secretly smuggle herself out of the palace in order to visit her dying mother in hospital.
What is wrong with them? 

It does sound a lot like a creepy science fiction movie, doesn't it? 

No kidding!  Who in their right minds would marry in?
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christina01
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« Reply #101 on: May 08, 2012, 12:53:43 AM »

Noone sane  Laugh bounce. But truly, who do they think they are to shut people away from the outside world in this day and age? I do know that Japanese people seem very disciplined. Not sure if that is the right word. I grew up in New Guinea, and we had quite a few Japanese families, and all their kids were very well behaved and u weren't allowed to enter their homes without removing your shoes, you had to show extreme respect at all times, etc. I just think these poor women who marry into the regime as such are expected to conform, regardless of their personal feelings.  Crap
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ChiaraC

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« Reply #102 on: May 09, 2012, 03:34:07 PM »

Thank you, Bozhidara  Smiley and Amina  Smiley and everybody contributing!  gamer
Do you know anything about the emperor's daughter? Since she got married I have not found any information about her. I assume that she does not work and is stay at home wife/mother. Does she have children?
As there is news about the emperor´s daughter, please see the other thread for my answer.  Smiley

Looks like this debate about Princesses in the JRF and girls being allowed to inherit will run and run.

It indeed does.  Sad

Hopefully Princess Aiko's future daughter in law will have boys and girls.

Unfortunately, the children of Aiko´s future daughter-in-law won´t matter at all because they would be descended from an emperor (Naruhito) in the female line (through Aiko) - and that is exactly what traditionalists are fiercely opposed to. It is not just a matter of the tenno having to be male, he also has to be descended in the male line. That is why I said that if Hisahito doesn´t produce sons, that will be it for the monarchy.  Dead He is in his generation not only the sole eligible heir but also the only one who can carry on the male line. If any girl should be so stupid as to marry him, it is very probable that she would soon crumble under the pressure to have a boy, like Masako did. That is one of the main points that drive me to desperation: the future misery being so predictable.  No

Noone sane  Laugh bounce. But truly, who do they think they are to shut people away from the outside world in this day and age? I do know that Japanese people seem very disciplined. Not sure if that is the right word. I grew up in New Guinea, and we had quite a few Japanese families, and all their kids were very well behaved and u weren't allowed to enter their homes without removing your shoes, you had to show extreme respect at all times, etc. I just think these poor women who marry into the regime as such are expected to conform, regardless of their personal feelings.  Crap

I absolutely agree, Christina. I think one of the main problems in Japan, and in the imperial family in particular, is that it is thought insulting to question your elders. This does not mean that older people/authorities are necessarily wrong in my opinion. But from time to time they actually are, especially in cases when times are changing and reforms become necessary.

One of the critical points during the last years in the imperial family was that the emperor complained that the crown prince´s family did not visit him as often as he wished, so he and the empress did not have much opportunity to see Aiko. (Imo, it was quite awkward already that he would say that on a press conference and not in private.) It is clear that the emperor was technically right: he and Michiko visited his parents every Sunday, no matter how nasty Empress Nagako would treat her daughter-in-law while the crown prince and princess go to see the emperor and empress nowadays but a few times during the year. But imo it would be important to consider the obvious reasons. There are indications that the emperor has tried to put his son under pressure to either divorce Masako or to abdicate. Small wonder that the crown prince wants to spare his already depressive wife the ordeal to every Sunday fake a smile at her in-laws who, as she knows, want to get rid of her... Besides, it was said that the princess´ feelings were very much hurt when she was put under pressure to have another child very soon after Aiko because Aiko was “but” a girl. While the emperor and empress would certainly say that they love Aiko, the crown prince and princess may still feel that the love of Aiko´s grandparents is not as unconditional as that of her parents...

But while from my point of view or from yours, these may be valid reasons, in Japan it is simply a no-no to not visit your parents - however they may treat you or your family. So there was not really a good way for the crown prince to defend himself against the emperor´s accusation. When he was asked about it on a press conference, he said “he would try” to increase the number of visits. (Which led to Akishino´s having a field day at HIS next press conference when he could blame his brother of not being true to his promises....)

Imo, it is a real problem if you have a value system that allows people to act in a very inconsiderate way just because they happen to be in a certain position (parents, elders, aristocrats, whatever) and that morally obliges others to suffer in silence or take the blame. To my mind, if you want someone to visit you (be it your children, your parents, your friends, you name it), it should be clear that it is up to you to be nice and considerate of their feelings. If you do not want to do that, you have to do without their visits. Quite simply.
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ChiaraC

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« Reply #103 on: May 09, 2012, 03:55:16 PM »

Peruvian President Ollanta Humala and his wife Nadine Heredia were welcomed by  Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko today at the Imperial Palace where the imperial couple hosted a luncheon for them. The crown prince attended.
Daylife Gallery
http://news.daylife.com/s...h?q=Akihito+May+9%2C+2012
For some reason, the pics do not show but those are the links:

1
http://noticias.terra.es/...ecibe-a-ollanta-humala-01

2
http://news.daylife.com/p...p;q=Akihito+May+9%2C+2012

3
http://news.daylife.com/p...p;q=Akihito+May+9%2C+2012

4
http://news.daylife.com/p...p;q=Akihito+May+9%2C+2012

5
http://news.daylife.com/p...p;q=Akihito+May+9%2C+2012

6
http://news.daylife.com/p...p;q=Michiko+May+9%2C+2012
(Peruvian President Ollanta Humala speaks with Japanese Empress Michiko while Japanese Crown Prince Naruhito speaks with an unidentified Peruvian delegate)

In a Spanish article it is said that the emperor after holding a 20-minutes-conversation with the Peruvian president on themes like Peruvian-Japanese cooperation in education and economics presented him to the crown prince and the crown princess.
Quote
Durante la reunión el Emperador presentó a su familia, el príncipe Nahurito y la princesa Masako.

Google translation
http://translate.google.d...erado-akihito-411459.aspx

I have not found any pics of the princess so far and it does not seem that she attended the luncheon, but still - it is better than nothing.  Grin
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« Reply #104 on: May 09, 2012, 06:33:54 PM »

I always felt sorry for Aiko not being able to get to the throne. As more I read the more I wonder if she is not a very lucky girl - she can leave the palace and lead a normal family life somewhere outside the walls of the palace.
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