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Author Topic: What Dukedom Will Harry Get When He Gets Married?  (Read 61626 times)
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DebbieB

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« Reply #225 on: July 22, 2015, 08:23:00 AM »

I hope they give him a ducal with no history. Starts with him  Smiley

 Star I hope so too, MidnightDiamond  Thumb up Or at least one with no recent history...when Edward was created the Earl of Wessex on his wedding day, it caused many raised eyebrows as Wessex was an old title that had not been used for many centuries (if I remember correctly). 
Except in "Shakespeare in Love" Roll Eyes Tongue

Lol...really?  Laughing  I don't remember too much of that day but I do remember lots of discussion about Wessex being an old county in England (I'm not talking a fictional county). I used to live in the West Country (born in Gloucestershire,  school in Somerset, worked in Devon)  and I knew about the old county of Wessex before the earldom was created for Edward.  I assumed that there must have been an earldom there B.E  Grin
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Lady of the Lurk

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« Reply #226 on: July 22, 2015, 10:03:21 AM »

There was only one Earl of Wessex before but it was a pre-Norman title according to Wikipedia. Apparently Edward asked for the title because there was an Earl of Wessex in the film Shakespeare in Love Roll Eyes
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« Reply #227 on: July 22, 2015, 12:48:12 PM »

There was only one Earl of Wessex before but it was a pre-Norman title according to Wikipedia. Apparently Edward asked for the title because there was an Earl of Wessex in the film Shakespeare in Love Roll Eyes

Thank you Lady of the lurk  Thumb up I didn't think that HM would spirit up an earldom because of a film...Although stranger things have happened! 
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lynda

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« Reply #228 on: July 22, 2015, 02:21:50 PM »

I hope Harry gets a title that gives his an income...........because when Billy takes over Harry will get -0-, Billy,Katie & the Middleton's will suck the income dry
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Kristallinchen

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« Reply #229 on: July 22, 2015, 02:25:31 PM »

Star Rosella. Right you are.

I just found it very interesting that the one monarch who was kept away from the rest of the family for the duration of her youth and did not know much of royal tradition was also the one who broke with most of traditions, causing much confusion and some historians would argue gave herself unnecessary headaches in her early reign. In addition to this, Victoria also aided in the explosion of titles to nobles and family members without land to give them, hence the reason why there are so little titles for use now.

Also interesting to note that some titles were not available to give to her sons because other nobles already had them, so Victoria bestowed a lot of Scottish and Irish titles. But her second son was named Earl of Kent instead of Duke because the title was already given away by her uncle to a living noble. It wasn't until around late 1890s and early 1900s-1920s when other titles became available.



Yes, Victoria appearantly wanted to unit the various part of her Kingdom/Empire - hence the many Irish and Scottish titles.
With regards to being so little titles available now - well you could also put on better medical service. I doubt that in former less titles were given out. It's just that they usually died out very quickly, because the heirs were either killed in actions, died as baby/without heirs or the daughters died in childbirth.
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Kristallinchen

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« Reply #230 on: July 22, 2015, 02:29:24 PM »

If Charles is King and by chance Andrew is dead, the traditional title of the second son, Duke of York could be bestowed on Harry.  But, with two "of York" princesses still lolling about, it might be a complete impossibility.

Sussex seems most likely.  The last dukes of Clarence and of Albany both have unfortunate reputations attached to them and seem unlikely choices. 

Odd tidbit: traditionally speaking, the second son of the Monarch has the Duke of Clarence title bestowed upon him. The Duke of York title being bestowed to the second son came about with HM's grandfather because he himself was Duke of York by his grandfather and his older brother was given Duke of Clarence (since he was second in line at the time) with their father being Prince of Wales. They were quite young when given the titles, so once their father came to the the throne, he was known as Edward VII. Duke of Clarence gave up on the title and moved one up and became Prince of Wales, but George couldn't just drop his dukedom since he was the brother of the future king and his father did not wish to give him a new title since he was quite young and rather reserved the title Duke of Clarence for the Prince of Wales' son.

It is a Hanoverian tradition that the second son is Duke of York with only the the past three generations being named that way. The reason they changed it is because Victoria broke with tradition and named her second son Duke of Edinburgh and Earl of Kent. So HM naming her consort the Duke of Edinburgh is actually a VERY high honor and usually resorted for those in the line of succession instead of consorts. She also broke again with tradition naming Edward Earl of Essex.

But generally speaking,

1) First in line --Prince of Wales & Duke of Cornwall
2) Second in line- Duke of Clarence
3) Third in Line - Duke of Bedford
4) Fourth in line- Duke of Gloucester
5) Fifth in line- Duke of Kent
 

The Cambridge Title was actually reduced to a Marquessate. It became abolished with the extinction of Germanic titles. HM basically eliminated the Marquess of Cambridge as it derived from Duck of Teck (again Germanic title instead of British) and gave William a ducal title.


Forgive me, if I'm mixing things up here, but I always thought that the problem with Albany and Cumberland was that technically there're still heirs for the titles (Coburgs and Hannoverians) and that despite of being stripped of those titles during WW1 they could actually demand it back or even try to use it without approval. I don't think they will do either of it, but obviously the Queen wouldn't want to try.
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hazeleyes

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« Reply #231 on: July 22, 2015, 03:50:55 PM »

congrats on your 100 posts, Lady of the Lurk  Star
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Lazy Kate

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« Reply #232 on: July 22, 2015, 08:59:23 PM »

I hope Harry gets a title that gives his an income...........because when Billy takes over Harry will get -0-, Billy,Katie & the Middleton's will suck the income dry

I think HM and Charles are well aware of this. I see Charles giving leaving everything he can to Harry and leaving little to nothing for Will. As long as Willy doesn't abdicate he will have no need for an inheritance.

If I remember correctly this is what happened to Edward when George V passed on. Everything that wasn't crown property was willed to his other children. Edward received Balmoral and Sandringham out of tradition and Bertie had to buy those back from him. I think when QM passed she left Charles some jewels but left the rest to the grandchildren and great grandchildren that didn't have crown income.
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« Reply #233 on: July 22, 2015, 11:01:29 PM »

I hope Harry gets a title that gives his an income...........because when Billy takes over Harry will get -0-, Billy,Katie & the Middleton's will suck the income dry

I think HM and Charles are well aware of this. I see Charles giving leaving everything he can to Harry and leaving little to nothing for Will. As long as Willy doesn't abdicate he will have no need for an inheritance.

If I remember correctly this is what happened to Edward when George V passed on. Everything that wasn't crown property was willed to his other children. Edward received Balmoral and Sandringham out of tradition and Bertie had to buy those back from him. I think when QM passed she left Charles some jewels but left the rest to the grandchildren and great grandchildren that didn't have crown income.
.                                                                                                                                                           Minor point but on his wedding day PW also got a Scottish and Northern Irish title, hence DOC being photographed with the appropriate tartan scarf folded in her hand's or wearing it on one occasion when she, PW and POW.were all on an engagement in Scotland. I don't really care what title PH gets as long as he is happily married and I do so hope he has children. I honestly believe he would be great with children.
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Kat in a Hat
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« Reply #234 on: May 06, 2016, 05:52:46 PM »

Does It have to be in England or can it be a commonwealth?
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LadyCate

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« Reply #235 on: May 06, 2016, 07:01:23 PM »

well supposedly he'll be Duke of Sussex - but it would be nice I think to give him Duke of Clarence.  All of these titles have some negative connation from a past holder so I do not see a problem with Clarence.  At least it has a royal association which Sussex does not.

I am not sure re: Commonwealth place names but I think it would be politically incorrect - as if asserting sovereignty over a foreign country - a bit colonial.  Same with the Irish titles like Connaught - which also was once a royal dukedom.

I rather doubt there are any titles with land attached hanging around - my guess is the Queen or his Dad will gift Harry with an estate just as Anne got.  Such a pity Highgrove is part of the Duchy - it cannot be given to Harry just leased.
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MidnightDiamond

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« Reply #236 on: May 06, 2016, 07:11:30 PM »

Sussex was just a mag rumor, nothing he could even be created a new dukedom that has no history.

If Charles wanted Harry to have Highgrove he could always buy Highgrove from the duchy, but William would probably throw a fit. I'd say they will buy an estate with lots of land for profit.
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LadyCate

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« Reply #237 on: May 06, 2016, 09:12:14 PM »

I've read in some places property of the Duchy cannot be sold - but then again I have seen some property (a slate quarry) being sold.

If it can be sold then obviously Harry is the choice to give it to - it has income and he could count on Harry preserving the gardens.

Does Will care?  He has Anmer - he'll get Sandringham.  He has KP and he'll get apartments at BP and Windsor not to mention Clarence House.  So does he even want Highgrove?  Kate seems to like Norfolk does she want to go to Gloucestershire?

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MidnightDiamond

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« Reply #238 on: May 06, 2016, 09:47:58 PM »

Mummy is why William would want Highgrove she stayed their and Kate can recreate her photoshoots.
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Kat in a Hat
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« Reply #239 on: May 06, 2016, 11:23:10 PM »

If he wanted to be so close to Diana, he should have buried her at Highgrove or on Sandringham somewhere.
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