At least 7 shot dead at Sikh temple near Milwaukee

[Cloaked]

One would hope some headway could be made to prevent these terrible incidents.
I agree Tgb.  
I like that Australia has strict gun laws - we own guns legally and I've always thought that the education needed to obtain a gun licence is a very worthwhile and protective course for my children to have to go through.  It teaches a lot of sensible behaviours when around guns.
One has to have a genuine reason to own a gun - for work, a gun sport etc.
We also have to have a licence to own a gun and to prove that our gun is securely stored under lock and key. (A different lock and key under which our ammunition is stored.)  All legally owned guns are registered.
If a family friend or anyone, who owns a gun, is acting in a mentally disturbing manner (even just depressed or having had a head injury etc.) they are required to hand in their guns temporarily.  The police act VERY fast in responding to this type of advice and they also do random audits of storage.
These measures don't stop a madman from acting illegally.
So a terrible event could occur anywhere but it is significant, as you note, to observe the prevalence of such mass shootings in America.

I found it interesting to see two comments broadcast on TV after the Cinema shootings.
Both comments were by Americans.  One person said that America needed gun reform urgently and another person said that more people needed to carry a gun so that someone in the Cinema could have shot the killer.
Two sides of the argument.  
America certainly has, in the past, been very reluctant to not allow it's citizens to own a gun; any reform, I feel, will be a long way coming unfortunately.

[tgb]

America certainly has, in the past, been very reluctant to not allow it's citizens to own a gun; any reform, I feel, will be a long way coming unfortunately.

Thanks, Cloaked! I agree, unfortunately. We are very good at passing knee-jerk legislation of all sorts but can't even seem to have a sustained conversation about gun control despite all the bodies. I don't even know what it would take because the NRA is so powerful and unwilling.

[PeDe]

I think you can also tie our gun culture to our lax gun laws, and then shooters to the culture. It's easy to say stricter regulations won't stop a gunman, but the country has never tried -- and while you can point to Scotland in one single year or Norway the same, those are a severely isolated incident whereas in the U.S. we have mass shootings regularly.

For example, just to graze the surface of the argument, of the 58 mass shootings (by a strict definition) in America from 1982 to Aurora -- in other words, prior to this incident -- 46 of the shooters obtained weapons legally, only 10 obtained them illegally, and it is unknown in 2 cases. Of the guns used, 62 were semi-automatic, 34 were assault weapons, 20 were revolvers, and 18 were shotguns. Can anyone argue we couldn't make a huge difference in the rate of gun violence in this country and the numbers of fatalities by making even just semi-automatic weapons harder to obtain or illegal? If a criminal is going to shoot anyway, as suggested, he's going to hit a lot fewer people without a semi-automatic, and it's tough to argue not owning a semi-automatic is a grievous injury to anyone's rights.

By a looser definition of mass shooting, America is averaging 20 every single year. Norway's relative stats don't even come close. I come from a gun-owning family and I support the right of people to own guns within reason, but when we are talking about simply building more and more prisons as we bury more and more innocent people who have died by fire from legally obtained high-powered guns we are increasingly throwing money behind our right to own, there is a huge problem, I think -- and one that other countries just as 'free' as the U.S. have been able to cut into very deeply through regulation and a number of other means. It's not even close how much worse the U.S. is in this regard. And meanwhile the gun lobby is pushing through cookie cutter legislation like 'Stand Your Ground' when, at least in my state, we already had the Castle Doctrine for self-defense. IMO something has to give. What happened at this temple and in Aurora is just awful, and I think the scale of these events is preventative.  

I think we should at least throw as much money behind mental health as the gun lobby if we aren't going to do anything about guns. Hugs!

EXCELLENT! 

[LongLivePalestine]

"Until America does something about its lax gun laws these attacks will continue to happen."

and i might respectfully add, spend more on mental health than prisons. 
 

Exactly!

[episcogal]

I am one who believes government should not hinder citizens, but I'm so appalled. I think mental health is vastly under funded. I speak from personal experience, unfortunately.

[TLLK]

I think you can also tie our gun culture to our lax gun laws, and then shooters to the culture. It's easy to say stricter regulations won't stop a gunman, but the country has never tried -- and while you can point to Scotland in one single year or Norway the same, those are a severely isolated incident whereas in the U.S. we have mass shootings regularly.

For example, just to graze the surface of the argument, of the 58 mass shootings (by a strict definition) in America from 1982 to Aurora -- in other words, prior to this incident -- 46 of the shooters obtained weapons legally, only 10 obtained them illegally, and it is unknown in 2 cases. Of the guns used, 62 were semi-automatic, 34 were assault weapons, 20 were revolvers, and 18 were shotguns. Can anyone argue we couldn't make a huge difference in the rate of gun violence in this country and the numbers of fatalities by making even just semi-automatic weapons harder to obtain or illegal? If a criminal is going to shoot anyway, as suggested, he's going to hit a lot fewer people without a semi-automatic, and it's tough to argue not owning a semi-automatic is a grievous injury to anyone's rights.

By a looser definition of mass shooting, America is averaging 20 every single year. Norway's relative stats don't even come close. I come from a gun-owning family and I support the right of people to own guns within reason, but when we are talking about simply building more and more prisons as we bury more and more innocent people who have died by fire from legally obtained high-powered guns we are increasingly throwing money behind our right to own, there is a huge problem, I think -- and one that other countries just as 'free' as the U.S. have been able to cut into very deeply through regulation and a number of other means. It's not even close how much worse the U.S. is in this regard. And meanwhile the gun lobby is pushing through cookie cutter legislation like 'Stand Your Ground' when, at least in my state, we already had the Castle Doctrine for self-defense. IMO something has to give. What happened at this temple and in Aurora is just awful, and I think the scale of these events is preventative.  

I think we should at least throw as much money behind mental health as the gun lobby if we aren't going to do anything about guns. Hugs!

IMO part of the issue regarding mental health is that no one can be compelled to take medication or to remain on it. I can't deny that some of these individuals who were later diagnosed with schizophrenia  were in desperate need of medication and supervision.

   An update from AZ Jared Loughner is expected to plead guilty to the shootings that injured former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and 13 others.  Six bystanders were killed.  Loughner had to be forcibly medicated in the months after the shootings.

[Gwen]

I don't see how owning an assault weapon that can kill hundreds of people in minutes can justifiably be called a right of citizens. What's the purpose of such a weapon? It's not like an army is coming to get them, in my opinion they're living inside a Rambo movie.

As for defense, right now people can buy a gun without serious restrictions or training, it takes practice to be able to use a gun properly, but opponents of gun control are opposed to even the most reasonable of measures to ensure the safety of those of us who don't have guns and who don't want them in our streets. Even if any of those poor victims had carried a gun, who's to say that they would have had the presence of mind to take out a mad man? Not everyone is Jason Bourne, whether they own a gun or not.

I find it appalling that the accused gunman in Colorado bought his ammunition on the internet, like we buy a book on Amazon. That is just wrong!

[whimsicalwriter]

Speaking as a legal gun owner in the US,obtaining a gun legally in the US is not as easy as you may think. There are a series of background checks including disclosure of any mental health issues. If you have any known mental health issues and fail to disclose them then you are in effect obtaining a gun illegally. Granted getting a shotgun is much easier then a handgun or assult rifle but it is still easier to get a gun illegally then it is to get 1 legally. And speaking from personal experience it took me 3 months before I could bring the guns I inherited from my mother home even though I already had a gun license. I have been sport shooting since I was 3 and even though my children have taken gun safety courses (I made them because of guns in the house) they have never gone shooting with me. Also I keep my guns and ammo locked in seperate places for added safety and only I have the keys. I think lack of knowledge is as big of a problem as mental health issues or the wholes in the registration system. Unfortunately most people who raise their kids around guns don't teach them about the guns. Most of these kids think it's like some kind of movie or video game.

[LongLivePalestine]

Speaking as a legal gun owner in the US,obtaining a gun legally in the US is not as easy as you may think. There are a series of background checks including disclosure of any mental health issues. If you have any known mental health issues and fail to disclose them then you are in effect obtaining a gun illegally. Granted getting a shotgun is much easier then a handgun or assult rifle but it is still easier to get a gun illegally then it is to get 1 legally. And speaking from personal experience it took me 3 months before I could bring the guns I inherited from my mother home even though I already had a gun license. I have been sport shooting since I was 3 and even though my children have taken gun safety courses (I made them because of guns in the house) they have never gone shooting with me. Also I keep my guns and ammo locked in seperate places for added safety and only I have the keys. I think lack of knowledge is as big of a problem as mental health issues or the wholes in the registration system. Unfortunately most people who raise their kids around guns don't teach them about the guns. Most of these kids think it's like some kind of movie or video game.

Every state has it's own laws and regulations or lack of. In my state, for example, it's easier to buy a gun than to get an ID to vote.

[just me]

i am sorry but this shooting is just not only about guns regulations or lack off but about hate crimes against sikhs or muslims after 9 /11. i am absolutely disgusted by this kind of behavior and media saying they were targeted because of mistaken identity or looks. so killing muslims is okay ? this anti islamic attitude of americans is becoming ridiculous and ruining their image abroad. why muslims are hated while americans  who invaded iraq illegally and are responsible for millions of death are not ? why a religion is a bad guy because of the acts of a group of terrorists and not a country that started an illegal war?

i am not saying americans should be hated but before judging others and their cultures one should look in the mirror first . the wars are ridiculous , it was an ego war like you killed my family so i will kill yours  , in this case both are criminals. when people die in america then it is a great tragedy but what about hundred of thousand people dying in iraq because of war .


when it comes to terrorism i think every body in a civil society is on the same page , we oppose it but these hate crimes actually serve terrorism. 9/11 was supposed to create a divide and i think bin laden succeed in his efforts sadly . people mis treat ,judge ,kill muslims or people  mistaken as muslims . the whole religion is misunderstood and has shown muslims that westerns do not respect their values or that they are not respected .  some of the comments on various american sites are just appalling , some people are saying that if sikh don't feel safe in this country they should leave for example .


APJ Abdul Kalam is a world class scientist and a former president of my country , few months ago he was traveling in america. he was in indian airlines flight which was ready ro take off but then some airport security personnel noticed his name and stopped the take off asked him to get out and did a naked security check again even after the pilots and other staff members tried to explain them who he was . it was reported in india and it was so humiliating for him , the american diplomat gave a public apology and fired those security men but that does not change the mentality of those people. the same thing happened  to Shah Rukh Khan who is the most popular and celebrated actor of bollywood world wide . this type of shooting and increasing hatred towards muslims is ridiculous and disgusting .

thank you for reading my post , i am just fed up with these hate crimes towards muslims .

[LongLivePalestine]

i am sorry but this shooting is just not only about guns regulations or lack off but about hate crimes against sikhs or muslims after 9 /11. i am absolutely disgusted by this kind of behavior and media saying they were targeted because of mistaken identity or looks. so killing muslims is okay ? this anti islamic attitude of americans is becoming ridiculous and ruining their image abroad. why muslims are hated while americans  who invaded iraq illegally and are responsible for millions of death are not ? why a religion is a bad guy because of the acts of a group of terrorists and not a country that started an illegal war?

i am not saying americans should be hated but before judging others and their cultures one should look in the mirror first . the wars are ridiculous , it was an ego war like you killed my family so i will kill yours  , in this case both are criminals. when people die in america then it is a great tragedy but what about hundred of thousand people dying in iraq because of war .


when it comes to terrorism i think every body in a civil society is on the same page , we oppose it but these hate crimes actually serve terrorism. 9/11 was supposed to create a divide and i think bin laden succeed in his efforts sadly . people mis treat ,judge ,kill muslims or people  mistaken as muslims . the whole religion is misunderstood and has shown muslims that westerns do not respect their values or that they are not respected .  some of the comments on various american sites are just appalling , some people are saying that if sikh don't feel safe in this country they should leave for example .


APJ Abdul Kalam is a world class scientist and a former president of my country , few months ago he was traveling in america. he was in indian airlines flight which was ready ro take off but then some airport security personnel noticed his name and stopped the take off asked him to get out and did a naked security check again even after the pilots and other staff members tried to explain them who he was . it was reported in india and it was so humiliating for him , the american diplomat gave a public apology and fired those security men but that does not change the mentality of those people. the same thing happened  to Shah Rukh Khan who is the most popular and celebrated actor of bollywood world wide . this type of shooting and increasing hatred towards muslims is ridiculous and disgusting .

thank you for reading my post , i am just fed up with these hate crimes towards muslims .

Agree a 1000%. They just burnt down a mosque in the South, and this is just in America. Don't forget about the under the radar wars in Pakistan and Somalia, amongst others. Dig a little deeper in Somalia's history and you'll be shocked (or not) about how the US's involvement in that country has made it into what it is today. Democracy Now has a great segment about it.

I'm really dreading the elections because I have no doubt in my mind it'll be a repeat of 2010.

[royalwatcher2010]

i am sorry but this shooting is just not only about guns regulations or lack off but about hate crimes against sikhs or muslims after 9 /11. i am absolutely disgusted by this kind of behavior and media saying they were targeted because of mistaken identity or looks. so killing muslims is okay ? this anti islamic attitude of americans is becoming ridiculous and ruining their image abroad. why muslims are hated while americans  who invaded iraq illegally and are responsible for millions of death are not ? why a religion is a bad guy because of the acts of a group of terrorists and not a country that started an illegal war?

i am not saying americans should be hated but before judging others and their cultures one should look in the mirror first . the wars are ridiculous , it was an ego war like you killed my family so i will kill yours  , in this case both are criminals. when people die in america then it is a great tragedy but what about hundred of thousand people dying in iraq because of war .


when it comes to terrorism i think every body in a civil society is on the same page , we oppose it but these hate crimes actually serve terrorism. 9/11 was supposed to create a divide and i think bin laden succeed in his efforts sadly . people mis treat ,judge ,kill muslims or people  mistaken as muslims . the whole religion is misunderstood and has shown muslims that westerns do not respect their values or that they are not respected .  some of the comments on various american sites are just appalling , some people are saying that if sikh don't feel safe in this country they should leave for example .


APJ Abdul Kalam is a world class scientist and a former president of my country , few months ago he was traveling in america. he was in indian airlines flight which was ready ro take off but then some airport security personnel noticed his name and stopped the take off asked him to get out and did a naked security check again even after the pilots and other staff members tried to explain them who he was . it was reported in india and it was so humiliating for him , the american diplomat gave a public apology and fired those security men but that does not change the mentality of those people. the same thing happened  to Shah Rukh Khan who is the most popular and celebrated actor of bollywood world wide . this type of shooting and increasing hatred towards muslims is ridiculous and disgusting .

thank you for reading my post , i am just fed up with these hate crimes towards muslims .

Agree a 1000%. They just burnt down a mosque in the South, and this is just in America. Don't forget about the under the radar wars in Pakistan and Somalia, amongst others. Dig a little deeper in Somalia's history and you'll be shocked (or not) about how the US's involvement in that country has made it into what it is today. Democracy Now has a great segment about it.

I'm really dreading the elections because I have no doubt in my mind it'll be a repeat of 2010.

Are you referencing an election held in 2010, or events which occured in 2010?

[Little_star]

i am sorry but this shooting is just not only about guns regulations or lack off but about hate crimes against sikhs or muslims after 9 /11. i am absolutely disgusted by this kind of behavior and media saying they were targeted because of mistaken identity or looks. so killing muslims is okay ? this anti islamic attitude of americans is becoming ridiculous and ruining their image abroad. why muslims are hated while americans  who invaded iraq illegally and are responsible for millions of death are not ? why a religion is a bad guy because of the acts of a group of terrorists and not a country that started an illegal war?

i am not saying americans should be hated but before judging others and their cultures one should look in the mirror first . the wars are ridiculous , it was an ego war like you killed my family so i will kill yours  , in this case both are criminals. when people die in america then it is a great tragedy but what about hundred of thousand people dying in iraq because of war .


when it comes to terrorism i think every body in a civil society is on the same page , we oppose it but these hate crimes actually serve terrorism. 9/11 was supposed to create a divide and i think bin laden succeed in his efforts sadly . people mis treat ,judge ,kill muslims or people  mistaken as muslims . the whole religion is misunderstood and has shown muslims that westerns do not respect their values or that they are not respected .  some of the comments on various american sites are just appalling , some people are saying that if sikh don't feel safe in this country they should leave for example .


APJ Abdul Kalam is a world class scientist and a former president of my country , few months ago he was traveling in america. he was in indian airlines flight which was ready ro take off but then some airport security personnel noticed his name and stopped the take off asked him to get out and did a naked security check again even after the pilots and other staff members tried to explain them who he was . it was reported in india and it was so humiliating for him , the american diplomat gave a public apology and fired those security men but that does not change the mentality of those people. the same thing happened  to Shah Rukh Khan who is the most popular and celebrated actor of bollywood world wide . this type of shooting and increasing hatred towards muslims is ridiculous and disgusting .

thank you for reading my post , i am just fed up with these hate crimes towards muslims .

Excellent post, just me! 

[LongLivePalestine]

i am sorry but this shooting is just not only about guns regulations or lack off but about hate crimes against sikhs or muslims after 9 /11. i am absolutely disgusted by this kind of behavior and media saying they were targeted because of mistaken identity or looks. so killing muslims is okay ? this anti islamic attitude of americans is becoming ridiculous and ruining their image abroad. why muslims are hated while americans  who invaded iraq illegally and are responsible for millions of death are not ? why a religion is a bad guy because of the acts of a group of terrorists and not a country that started an illegal war?

i am not saying americans should be hated but before judging others and their cultures one should look in the mirror first . the wars are ridiculous , it was an ego war like you killed my family so i will kill yours  , in this case both are criminals. when people die in america then it is a great tragedy but what about hundred of thousand people dying in iraq because of war .


when it comes to terrorism i think every body in a civil society is on the same page , we oppose it but these hate crimes actually serve terrorism. 9/11 was supposed to create a divide and i think bin laden succeed in his efforts sadly . people mis treat ,judge ,kill muslims or people  mistaken as muslims . the whole religion is misunderstood and has shown muslims that westerns do not respect their values or that they are not respected .  some of the comments on various american sites are just appalling , some people are saying that if sikh don't feel safe in this country they should leave for example .


APJ Abdul Kalam is a world class scientist and a former president of my country , few months ago he was traveling in america. he was in indian airlines flight which was ready ro take off but then some airport security personnel noticed his name and stopped the take off asked him to get out and did a naked security check again even after the pilots and other staff members tried to explain them who he was . it was reported in india and it was so humiliating for him , the american diplomat gave a public apology and fired those security men but that does not change the mentality of those people. the same thing happened  to Shah Rukh Khan who is the most popular and celebrated actor of bollywood world wide . this type of shooting and increasing hatred towards muslims is ridiculous and disgusting .

thank you for reading my post , i am just fed up with these hate crimes towards muslims .

Agree a 1000%. They just burnt down a mosque in the South, and this is just in America. Don't forget about the under the radar wars in Pakistan and Somalia, amongst others. Dig a little deeper in Somalia's history and you'll be shocked (or not) about how the US's involvement in that country has made it into what it is today. Democracy Now has a great segment about it.

I'm really dreading the elections because I have no doubt in my mind it'll be a repeat of 2010.

Are you referencing an election held in 2010, or events which occured in 2010?

I'm hoping there's no repeat of the elections. I was speaking of the hate that flowed and intensified against Muslims as the elections drew closer.

[periwinkle]

I agree with you all who say this is about gun laws and access. It's gross how our country is held hostage to such a wild misinterpretation of the second amendment. Why don't resasonable people fight back?
My friend's brother was paranoid schizophrenic and lived with their mom. He had been fretting over their mother's increased frailty - shes 80 -and one day saw something on tv that triggered an irrational response. He threw the tv, starting getting violent. The mom called the police who told her to leave the house and they would come. She did and they came and the brother ran out of the house brandishing a gun. He was shot dead, suicide by cop. No one in the family knew he had a gun and have had to deal with their own rage at a system that allowed this mentally disturbed and diagnosed recluse to have a gun.
Yes long livepalestine, there is hate and misunderstanding, and apathy from most regular citizens, but our gun laws are more of the problem IMVHO. Don't get me started on chicken sandwich activism.