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Author Topic: Scotland to vote again to leave UK  (Read 587 times)
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Winnifred

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« on: March 13, 2017, 02:37:22 PM »

I don't remember the Brexit thread getting out of hand, I think most posters were respectful of one another. In any case, if Moderators feel that this new topic is unwarranted or ill-advised, please delete.

As the UK faces uncertainty in its break from the EU, a deeper internal divide is once again stirring. Suffice it to say that elections do have consequences.

"But Sturgeon said Monday that Britain’s E.U. exit against Scottish wishes represents a 'change in material circumstances' that justifies a second vote. The referendum, she said, will give Scottish voters the option 'to follow the U.K. to a hard Brexit — or to become an independent country.'"

https://www.washingtonpos...mp;utm_term=.298151dd2216
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 02:42:59 PM by Winnifred » Logged

Principessa

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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2017, 03:45:51 PM »

Interesting how this will develop!
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MidnightDiamond

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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2017, 05:15:04 PM »

Sturgeon was leave uk campaign was weird last time. Saying they would keep the Queen, when the Queen has to approve if she wants to. It was like they wanted to have their cake and eat too. I wonder how this one will be hopefully they won't lie. But from what the polls are saying no one wants it. Seems Sturgeon is power hungry in my ignorant eyes of course.
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Little_star
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 05:33:34 PM »

Good luck, Scotland! Westminster has treated you abysmally.

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perdie

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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 05:40:15 PM »

My Scottish friends were split roughly along the lines of the final result of the referendum.  Now, there is a clear majority to leave.  The Brexit referendum was the last straw for those who have changed opinion - they say it is clear that they are of a different mentality to the rest of the UK (NI being, as usual, its own little strange self and always ignored).  In the last referendum, polls started with Independence much lower and it did come up dramatically.  This isn't Sturgeon being power hungry imo; she and the SNP clearly stated that in the result of England and Scotland being split on Brexit that they would push again for this.  It is maybe a power play for now, to try and leverage some sort of deal for Scotland to remain in the UK but also have some sort of deal with the EU, but in trying to soften Brexit she is doing what Scottish voters want, I believe.  If it looks like Independence could win, then she may get a deal.  However, there was major resentment last time because things that were promised if Remain won never actually materialised.  There is no expectation that any promise will be kept.  Interesting that this comes on the heels of Spain saying they won't veto an independent Scotland entering the EU, as that was seen as a major stumbling block last time round.

It's a shame that NI, which also voted Remain, doesn't have a government that will stand up for what the majority of the voters there wanted.  Instead, it gets ever more parochial.  If Scotland does leave though, NI won't be long after it.  The links in NI are to Scotland, not to England.

We live in interesting times...
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 05:45:58 PM »

Well said, perdie.

All of my Scottish friends have indicated that they will vote Yes if asked again; even those who voted No previously. 
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Winnifred

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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 06:22:36 PM »

My Scottish friends were split roughly along the lines of the final result of the referendum.  Now, there is a clear majority to leave.  The Brexit referendum was the last straw for those who have changed opinion - they say it is clear that they are of a different mentality to the rest of the UK (NI being, as usual, its own little strange self and always ignored).  In the last referendum, polls started with Independence much lower and it did come up dramatically.  This isn't Sturgeon being power hungry imo; she and the SNP clearly stated that in the result of England and Scotland being split on Brexit that they would push again for this.  It is maybe a power play for now, to try and leverage some sort of deal for Scotland to remain in the UK but also have some sort of deal with the EU, but in trying to soften Brexit she is doing what Scottish voters want, I believe.  If it looks like Independence could win, then she may get a deal.  However, there was major resentment last time because things that were promised if Remain won never actually materialised.  There is no expectation that any promise will be kept.  Interesting that this comes on the heels of Spain saying they won't veto an independent Scotland entering the EU, as that was seen as a major stumbling block last time round.

It's a shame that NI, which also voted Remain, doesn't have a government that will stand up for what the majority of the voters there wanted.  Instead, it gets ever more parochial.  If Scotland does leave though, NI won't be long after it.  The links in NI are to Scotland, not to England.

We live in interesting times...


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Ellie

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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 07:12:15 PM »

Sturgeon was leave uk campaign was weird last time. Saying they would keep the Queen, when the Queen has to approve if she wants to. It was like they wanted to have their cake and eat too. I wonder how this one will be hopefully they won't lie. But from what the polls are saying no one wants it. Seems Sturgeon is power hungry in my ignorant eyes of course.

This is how I see it and how my Scottish relatives see it according to my dad who speaks to them often. They're all solid unionists though.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. Brexit seems like far more trouble than it's worth.
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MidnightDiamond

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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 08:02:05 PM »

I hope that they don't lie to the people. Scotland will have to reapply to join the EU. And if they want the Queen as their Queen they will have to ask and hope she says yes. idc tbh, Scotland is beautiful though.
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Maria
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2017, 09:07:48 PM »

I hope that they don't lie to the people. Scotland will have to reapply to join the EU. And if they want the Queen as their Queen they will have to ask and hope she says yes. idc tbh, Scotland is beautiful though.

As far as I can tell the difference is now that an independent Scotland would likely be welcomed into the EU. Which is the difference that's worth looking at, because the Scots wants to be members of the EU. IMO the UK government brought the on themselves with their hard Brexit. No one wants a hard Brexit, except for the hardcore xenophobes on the right wing in England. I fail to see why the Scots should suffer for it.

What's far more worrying is the potential conflict in NI. There's is quite a bit of worry in Ireland/NI about the borders coming instead of going because of the Brexit. The recent election had a very muddled result and I have seen many worried that the conflict might turn violent again.
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Mary Stuart

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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2017, 09:15:06 PM »

Spain will veto Scotland's EU application. They don't want Catalonia getting any ideas.
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Maria
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2017, 09:19:24 PM »

Spain will veto Scotland's EU application. They don't want Catalonia getting any ideas.

I doubt Spain wants a weaker EU at this point.

https://www.theguardian.c...o-join-eu-commission-says

Quote
The Spanish prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, made it clear in the days following the Brexit referendum that ?if the UK leaves, Scotland leaves?. Spain has long feared a vote to split the UK would boost Catalan separatists.

But the mood has softened since the Brexit vote. European politicians and diplomats are more sympathetic to Scotland and Madrid is thought unlikely to use its power to veto the EU hopes of a country that ticks the membership boxes.

A senior member of Rajoy?s ruling centre-right party told BBC Scotland last week that Spain would not seek to veto an independent Scotland. ?If you are thinking about Catalonia the situation is very, very, very different to the Scottish situation,? said Esteban Gonz?lez Pons, a Spanish member of the European parliament.

Zuleeg said the EU should be making contingency plans for the ?realistic chance? that Scotland would vote to leave the UK and apply for EU membership.

?If the Scottish population voted for independence because they wanted to stay in the EU the last thing the EU should do is to slam the door in their faces,? he said. ?Having a country join would be a very positive signal for the EU ... and a signal for those pushing EU disintegration.?
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