Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte

[Charlotte]

that's the commoner syndrome 

I think that it is interesting that her children didn't have a good relationship with her, one didn't even go to her funeral. Imo she seems to be a real bitch.

I read on the Cross of Laeken blog that one of her daughters, who's estranged from the family, was raped by a family member and after telling Lilian about it, she was told to hush up and put up.  That sent the daughter over the edge.  I can't blame her for distancing herself from her family, but I wish she had done it another way.

[Rearden]

I read that in one of the members boards, maybe the jewels one? Someone said that maybe it was a not true but who knows?

[irishthanhy]

I read on the Cross of Laeken blog that one of her daughters, who's estranged from the family, was raped by a family member and after telling Lilian about it, she was told to hush up and put up.  That sent the daughter over the edge.  I can't blame her for distancing herself from her family, but I wish she had done it another way.

The bit on Marie-Christine is here.

Princess Lilian was a secret person but enjoyed listening to people who sometimes forgot they were confiding to her. But there is an indirect way to understand her personality. For many years, more than I can recall, she enjoyed the environment of objects, even works of art, that expressed a certain quality of life. Wherever we lived, she created a sort of "impregnation of space" that gave the visitor an impression of evidence and uniqueness. Argenteuil is certainly the home where she invested the most energy and spirituality. In a way, it was like a signature.

-Lilian's son

Also from Cross of Laeken:

Princess Josephine-Charlotte, especially, is under her step-mother's spell. Just before her marriage to Prince Jean of Luxembourg, her feverish changing of clothes for her step-mother's approval or criticism was a palace joke.

There's lost of good stuff about her there.

[Cara]

Who had a good relationship with Lilian?   

by all accounts her stepchildren did as well as two of her three children.

[Rearden]

from what I know about Lilian and is not much  I think that things were going well when she had the control over the family but when things changed the relationships between the BRF went bad.

[Cara]

i don't think that i know much more than you do rearden but there is no indication that she didn't get along with her children and stepchildren, except for marie-christine of course.

it seems that the relationship with baudouin was tense after he got married and i don't think there was much contact after that. this could also have been due to a tense relationship between baudouin and his father.

she kept a good relationship with king albert II who visited her regularly.

[Rearden]

my knowledge cames from following the jewels board as they usually discuss Lilian's jewels

not long ago the member Raiza posted this message:

Well, as far as I know the laws back then were even more favorable to the children. The notion that the husband may use the property (this by the way does not include jewellery, only houses) is a new addition to Belgian law.

It came because of situations like the one with Princess Lilian. The husband would remarry and the children were not pleased about it, as a consequence they claimed their inheratance. This usually meant that the houses would be sold and the interiour would be divided.

Some other remarks:
There have always been claims that Leopold already knew Lilian before the death of Astird and that they were already in fact lovers. Now, recent books confirm those theories.

What bothered a lot of Belgians at the time was that the marriage took place during the war, in secret and in the wrong order. They first married for the church, then had their civil wedding... now this is illegal in Belgium. Secondly Lilian was already 2 months pregnant of Alexander when she married Leopold. In those days that was a real scandal. Not appropiate for royalty.

As to the jewels, i have already pointed out that legally they belonged to the children. However, as Henri said, he was in trust of them of course.

Now the story goes that when Lilian first wore the jewellery, there was a enormous row with Josphine Charlotte. So Leopold hastly gave her some jewellery of her mother. The bracelet of Astrid now worn by MT, however must be given to her after Leopolds death.

Further, as already said here, Fabiola disliked Lilian very much. As a consequence, she refused to wear any jewellery that Lilian had already worn. Same for Josephine. So it is not so unusal that JC did not wear the bracelet. I read this some paper of that time.

My guess is that a lot of Astrid jewellery went to Boudewijn after the death of Leopold, or perhaps even before that, but Fabiola too refuses to wear them, because of her dislike but also to avoid scandals. If these jewels turn up, there will be some discussion about them i the paper as we are having them now. The Belgian Royal Family hated those things, and certainly in those days. Now the are keeping them behind bars, 8 guess, because the relationships are somewhat better (or appear to be) with Esmeralda & co and they want to keep it that way.

Before her marriage with Boudewijn, Lilian had a lot of power over him. Some go that far that they were lovers (see newest bio about Boudewijn). This was all to remain very powerful in Belgium. This was also the reason why some ministers in Belgium thought that Boudewijn should marry as soon as possible. When fabiola came, Lilian tried to keep her influende over boudewijn, which resulted in serious rows, hence Fabiola's dislike ("There were 3 of us in that marriage" ... )

Fabiola has always been difficult about her jewellery. She does not lend them to the princesses and not even for exhibitions. It has been said that Fabiola has already left most of her belongings to a convent. The ground on which this was build was property of Boudewijn and B&F payed for the building of it.

Now, I think it was very inappropiate of Lilian to wear the jewellery of Astrid. Not for sentimental reason, but because it was theft. When there are children, (as in the case to of William and Harry) only they are entitled to their mother's possension! Not the second wife... unless she has permission. That Lilian wore the diadem of the 9 provinces (now 10 btw...) is not a crime, that tiara is state property, and thus to be worn by the king's wife. All the other jewellery ... NO!

Some have compaired it to selling of jewellery ... It's not the same, I think. When you sell, you get money in return, Lilian just took them. Much to the dislikes of Josephine.

As a child, Lilian was already very fond of royalty, so I doubt that she did not know whose jewels she was wearing ...

And someone else posted:

The very fact that it took her son Alexandre 7 whole years before he dared to tell his mother he had got married is much telling about her status inside her own family.
Her daughter's accusations that she had been raped by a 'relative' and her mother had done nothing to help her doesn't add either to Lilian's image, despite her being " a most beautiful woman, and looking quite striking in all the jewels she wore ...

It doesn't seem like she was an easy person, but I didn't about Albert visiting her 

[Cara]

thanks for the info rearden.

never said that she was an easy person. but i don't think that she is the incarnation of all things evil either.

alexandre's marriage was made public 7 years after he got married. maybe that he didn't have the nerve to tell his mother and the rest of the BRF, because he married a twice divorced mother of two... imo most royal parents would not have liked that kind of news (just look at how jean of luxembourg was ostracized from family events when he married helene of nassau).

it could also be that he decided not to make it public because he didn't want it to reflect negatively on the BRF... and felt a few years later that it was ok to divulge it. really

as for marie-christine, i am sorry if she was a victim of rape/molestation and did not find the support of her family. can't really comment on that as there is just not enough information on that.  

[Miss Waynfleet]

well you know Belgium monarchy is not very solid, but neither is the spanish, swedish, norwegian, dutch, and even the british is not passing for their best moment 

If the monarchy in the UK would be abolished, would Scotland become independent? After all they are not bounded anymore.

[Este]

that's the commoner syndrome 

I think that it is interesting that her children didn't have a good relationship with her, one didn't even go to her funeral. Imo she seems to be a real bitch.

That's just rumour...people seem to think Astrid was some kind of saint, she wasn't. 
Actually, Lilian had quite a good relationship with her step-kids, and her own son and daughter got along with her. Why do people always want to believe the negative things said about her?

[Este]

Leopold was a wimp (sorry), but at least he was happy with Lilian.
A shame the Belgians chased away Leopolds brother Charles. Instead of a young Badouin (who hadn´t a clean slate) a smart Charles.
But it´s too late. No one knows if Philippe becomes King, not to speak of Elisabeth. 

No, he wasn't a wimp, not by a long shot. Why did Leopold have to abdicate when he essentially helped saved English and French butts in 1940? 

I'm sorry, but why is it so wrong for a widowed man to re-marry? Astrid was no angel, and apparently Lillian was not the demon some biased sources wish to paint her as. Let's give them a break. 

[Este]

that's the commoner syndrome 

I think that it is interesting that her children didn't have a good relationship with her, one didn't even go to her funeral. Imo she seems to be a real bitch.

I read on the Cross of Laeken blog that one of her daughters, who's estranged from the family, was raped by a family member and after telling Lilian about it, she was told to hush up and put up.  That sent the daughter over the edge.  I can't blame her for distancing herself from her family, but I wish she had done it another way.

Well, that could be the truth, or it could be a lie. I read that Marie-Christine admitted she liked to lie. Who really knows?
Esmeralda and Alexandre turned out fine, and seemed like they always loved and respected their parents.
 

[A_little_bird]

When Leopold and Lilian had to moved out from Laeken, she took all the furnitures 

It was their own furniture. There's so much nonsense written about Leopold and Lillian.

[A_little_bird]

I read on the Cross of Laeken blog that one of her daughters, who's estranged from the family, was raped by a family member and after telling Lilian about it, she was told to hush up and put up.  That sent the daughter over the edge.  I can't blame her for distancing herself from her family, but I wish she had done it another way.

The bit on Marie-Christine is here.

Princess Lilian was a secret person but enjoyed listening to people who sometimes forgot they were confiding to her. But there is an indirect way to understand her personality. For many years, more than I can recall, she enjoyed the environment of objects, even works of art, that expressed a certain quality of life. Wherever we lived, she created a sort of "impregnation of space" that gave the visitor an impression of evidence and uniqueness. Argenteuil is certainly the home where she invested the most energy and spirituality. In a way, it was like a signature.

-Lilian's son

Also from Cross of Laeken:

Princess Josephine-Charlotte, especially, is under her step-mother's spell. Just before her marriage to Prince Jean of Luxembourg, her feverish changing of clothes for her step-mother's approval or criticism was a palace joke.

There's lost of good stuff about her there.

Yes there is. Thanks!

[Miss Waynfleet]

Thanks to Katenka Fyodorovna from Alexander Palace for these cute photos of Josephine Charlotte!