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Author Topic: Would Harry be allowed to marry a Woman of Colour  (Read 117914 times)
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2012, 01:28:12 PM »

Kate is not old money, nor any social standing. She is the exact opposite. New money, middle class. 

Not all aristos, and even royals, are caucasian. Prince Maximillan of Lichtenstein's wife Angela is of Afro-Panamanian descent.

Yeah Kate is the  opposite and she was ridiculed for that I.e.doors to manual etc, it was very popular fact that William's circle was not very welcoming towards her and made some very nasty and snobbish remarks.

I wonder if that was because she was acting "grander" than they were.  There is no shame in being born a middle-class commoner, but she may have been trying to deny her origins.

Back to the question: There was a Larry King episode on CNN several years ago when he was interviewing some royal reporter, and the topic of being black and/or catholic came up for potential spouses for royals.  The reporter dismissed the catholic issue as they cannot marry one, and said that a black person would not be received in the circles the royals travel in, so the royals would not even try.  I have come to realize that within the BRF, the HRHs are perceived and treated differently than the non-HRHs who are in line to the throne.  Lady Davina is so far away from the throne (and the son of the late Earl Harewood even farther) that when they married someone "non-white" it did not matter.  One rule for HRH, one rule for the others.  I for one would love for Harry (or the York girls or the Wessex kids) to marry someone of another race or religion or nationality (Canada is not really pushing the envelope).  Hell, I would love it if he married someone who has a JOB.  But the decision is ultimately up to the sovereign, if the Royal Marriages Act still applies.

I don't think that there are any official rules against inter racial marriages and also not for any other religion other then Roman catholic.
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2012, 01:30:56 PM »

To be honest: most people marry people that fit into their circle, so I don't quite see why royals should be different. The current crop of future regents have all married "on the outskirts" of their circles so I can't really see where the discussion would go. By now it would almost be more surprising if Harry married another royal or "just" some nobleborn woman.
I don't really get the fitting into ones circle party and I am sorry to pin point but a far as education, personnel qualities like manners etc or even wealth is concerned there are many people from different religion and race that can go head to head with harry's elite social circle (i actually don't think that Kate fits this criteria in terms of intelligence or personality is concerned p, even today the richest person in England is actually Indian.i think the not fitting in the circle comes from the backward thinking of the past that elites just refuse to give up like the class system that still exist in England.
The richest man in the world is mexican with arab heritage, in the aristo circle its not only about the money, but about blood and heritage, i dont think they are racist or something like that (well they cant show it) but its the same as how many indian men marries a caucasian woman? or viceversa?? I bet it is more difficult to marry in an indian, black, asian, etc family than to a caucasian one. Aristos i dont understand why are they so great, they dont do nothing for the society but party, and live off the money they have.. i think its more a tradition thing..
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2012, 01:31:21 PM »

To be honest: most people marry people that fit into their circle, so I don't quite see why royals should be different. The current crop of future regents have all married "on the outskirts" of their circles so I can't really see where the discussion would go. By now it would almost be more surprising if Harry married another royal or "just" some nobleborn woman.
I don't really get the fitting into ones circle party and I am sorry to pin point but a far as education, personnel qualities like manners etc or even wealth is concerned there are many people from different religion and race that can go head to head with harry's elite social circle (i actually don't think that Kate fits this criteria in terms of intelligence or personality is concerned p, even today the richest person in England is actually Indian.i think the not fitting in the circle comes from the backward thinking of the past that elites just refuse to give up like the class system that still exist in England.

I am sorry, but I don't understand what you mean Confused

What I mean with circle(s), is that you, me - everyone really - tend to know mostly the same sort of people. You meet and are friends with those you go to school with, those you live nearby, those you meet at work -and so on. It's often among them you meet your partner - that's my experience. That goes for everyone and not just royals. It's not so much about fitting in, it's more about the actual, practical thing of meeting people and having things/interests in common with them.
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2012, 01:34:52 PM »

To be honest: most people marry people that fit into their circle, so I don't quite see why royals should be different. The current crop of future regents have all married "on the outskirts" of their circles so I can't really see where the discussion would go. By now it would almost be more surprising if Harry married another royal or "just" some nobleborn woman.
I don't really get the fitting into ones circle party and I am sorry to pin point but a far as education, personnel qualities like manners etc or even wealth is concerned there are many people from different religion and race that can go head to head with harry's elite social circle (i actually don't think that Kate fits this criteria in terms of intelligence or personality is concerned p, even today the richest person in England is actually Indian.i think the not fitting in the circle comes from the backward thinking of the past that elites just refuse to give up like the class system that still exist in England.
The richest man in the world is mexican with arab heritage, in the aristo circle its not only about the money, but about blood and heritage, i dont think they are racist or something like that (well they cant show it) but its the same as how many indian men marries a caucasian woman? or viceversa?? I bet it is more difficult to marry in an indian, black, asian, etc family than to a caucasian one. Aristos i dont understand why are they so great, they dont do nothing for the society but party, and live off the money they have.. i think its more a tradition thing..
I forgot to say: Who is telling us, that aristos are the more educated, or the more clever? hahaha thats not true, they go to the university a la waity to study something easy and worthless just to have a degree, nothing else, there are exceptions of course, but.....
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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2012, 01:38:49 PM »

To be honest: most people marry people that fit into their circle, so I don't quite see why royals should be different. The current crop of future regents have all married "on the outskirts" of their circles so I can't really see where the discussion would go. By now it would almost be more surprising if Harry married another royal or "just" some nobleborn woman.
I don't really get the fitting into ones circle party and I am sorry to pin point but a far as education, personnel qualities like manners etc or even wealth is concerned there are many people from different religion and race that can go head to head with harry's elite social circle (i actually don't think that Kate fits this criteria in terms of intelligence or personality is concerned p, even today the richest person in England is actually Indian.i think the not fitting in the circle comes from the backward thinking of the past that elites just refuse to give up like the class system that still exist in England.
The richest man in the world is mexican with arab heritage, in the aristo circle its not only about the money, but about blood and heritage, i dont think they are racist or something like that (well they cant show it) but its the same as how many indian men marries a caucasian woman? or viceversa?? I bet it is more difficult to marry in an indian, black, asian, etc family than to a caucasian one. Aristos i dont understand why are they so great, they dont do nothing for the society but party, and live off the money they have.. i think its more a tradition thing..
I forgot to say: Who is telling us, that aristos are the more educated, or the more clever? hahaha thats not true, they go to the university a la waity to study something easy and worthless just to have a degree, nothing else, there are exceptions of course, but.....

I don't see Maria saying anything about who is more educated or not. Most people do marry within their circle, because that's the people they are around.
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« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2012, 01:44:24 PM »

To be honest: most people marry people that fit into their circle, so I don't quite see why royals should be different. The current crop of future regents have all married "on the outskirts" of their circles so I can't really see where the discussion would go. By now it would almost be more surprising if Harry married another royal or "just" some nobleborn woman.
I don't really get the fitting into ones circle party and I am sorry to pin point but a far as education, personnel qualities like manners etc or even wealth is concerned there are many people from different religion and race that can go head to head with harry's elite social circle (i actually don't think that Kate fits this criteria in terms of intelligence or personality is concerned p, even today the richest person in England is actually Indian.i think the not fitting in the circle comes from the backward thinking of the past that elites just refuse to give up like the class system that still exist in England.

I am sorry, but I don't understand what you mean Confused

What I mean with circle(s), is that you, me - everyone really - tend to know mostly the same sort of people. You meet and are friends with those you go to school with, those you live nearby, those you meet at work -and so on. It's often among them you meet your partner - that's my experience. That goes for everyone and not just royals. It's not so much about fitting in, it's more about the actual, practical thing of meeting people and having things/interests in common with them.

I get what you are trying to say now and imo I think you are right especially when Harry's job consists of meeting different people every time for maximum 5 or 10 minutes and his circle includes only a certain type of people, so his chances of meeting someone different are very slim.
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« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2012, 01:55:38 PM »

To be honest: most people marry people that fit into their circle, so I don't quite see why royals should be different. The current crop of future regents have all married "on the outskirts" of their circles so I can't really see where the discussion would go. By now it would almost be more surprising if Harry married another royal or "just" some nobleborn woman.
I don't really get the fitting into ones circle party and I am sorry to pin point but a far as education, personnel qualities like manners etc or even wealth is concerned there are many people from different religion and race that can go head to head with harry's elite social circle (i actually don't think that Kate fits this criteria in terms of intelligence or personality is concerned p, even today the richest person in England is actually Indian.i think the not fitting in the circle comes from the backward thinking of the past that elites just refuse to give up like the class system that still exist in England.
The richest man in the world is mexican with arab heritage, in the aristo circle its not only about the money, but about blood and heritage, i dont think they are racist or something like that (well they cant show it) but its the same as how many indian men marries a caucasian woman? or viceversa?? I bet it is more difficult to marry in an indian, black, asian, etc family than to a caucasian one. Aristos i dont understand why are they so great, they dont do nothing for the society but party, and live off the money they have.. i think its more a tradition thing..

I said the richest man in England.the case with India is different because we do not have a multi culture citizens in general, but even here inter cast marriage are no big deal now days which was not the case a decade our do ago.i don't think aristocratic are very intelligent or very educated or productive or superior people but I get this vibe from the articles that I read about them that they think that they are special because of their birth and a lot of brits also think the same .i also think it is traditions that make them think this way but traditions generate from the past and racism is a very big part of aristocratic traditions plus the class system, again I don't think they all are racist but it could be the more modern form of that type of prejudice in the case of rf
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« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2012, 02:07:59 PM »

I dislike the word colored, I think it has historical connotations that are a little unpleasant, I know it's not meant in an offensive way though.

I don't think Harry would be allowed to marry someone who is black, but I do think he could perhaps marry someone of a different ethnicity.

Lets not forget that the basis or perception of being a royal/peer is to be equal to those of our rank but more than those who are less than. Unfortunately to some degree in aristocratic circles (and most other walks of life) there is an element of racism that I think would make it more difficult for a non-white person to marry into the BRF.

I would like to think the world is past racial divides but the truth is that it isn't, and there is a growing right-wing element in Europe at the minute.

A Maori marrying into the fringe of the BRF really wasn't an issue because I think the perception of Maori people is of a rich cultural background but now homogenous with 'Western' life. I'm not sure different ethnicities are looked upon in the same light.

For the record though, I reckon Harry will be married at least twice. I think he'll marry someone he thinks he should marry and when it doesn't work out he'll marry for love. Just like his father before him.

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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2012, 02:38:42 PM »


For the record though, I reckon Harry will be married at least twice. I think he'll marry someone he thinks he should marry and when it doesn't work out he'll marry for love. Just like his father before him.



He is very traditional, believe it or not  Thatīs why it could happen what tatty said, but I hope not  Confused
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« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2012, 03:02:08 PM »

To be honest: most people marry people that fit into their circle, so I don't quite see why royals should be different. The current crop of future regents have all married "on the outskirts" of their circles so I can't really see where the discussion would go. By now it would almost be more surprising if Harry married another royal or "just" some nobleborn woman.
I don't really get the fitting into ones circle party and I am sorry to pin point but a far as education, personnel qualities like manners etc or even wealth is concerned there are many people from different religion and race that can go head to head with harry's elite social circle (i actually don't think that Kate fits this criteria in terms of intelligence or personality is concerned p, even today the richest person in England is actually Indian.i think the not fitting in the circle comes from the backward thinking of the past that elites just refuse to give up like the class system that still exist in England.


The richest man in the world is mexican with arab heritage, in the aristo circle its not only about the money, but about blood and heritage, i dont think they are racist or something like that (well they cant show it) but its the same as how many indian men marries a caucasian woman? or viceversa?? I bet it is more difficult to marry in an indian, black, asian, etc family than to a caucasian one. Aristos i dont understand why are they so great, they dont do nothing for the society but party, and live off the money they have.. i think its more a tradition thing..

In Britain there are lots of mixed marriages (I think I saw a statistic that it was more common here than in the USA).

What Maria said about "circles" is true. It's whether you are from the same economic background that counts rather than race.

For example, the Mayor of London Boris Johnson, is married to an anglo-Indian lady, Marina Wheeler (her father was English and mother Sikh, and Marina wore a shalwar kamize to the Royal Wedding) - they met at the same private primary school. They are both from that economic strata that can afford to send their children to private schools. BTW Boris has a lot of German nobility in him (a direct descendant of Prince Paul Von Wurttemberg) and is related to George II. Here's the pic of them from the Royal wedding:



Going further back, Edwina Mountbatten had a very deep affair with Nehru, I think she'd have left Lord Mountbatten for him if Nehru was prepared to divorce his wife (which was impossible back then for political reasons). But again they were part of the same economic background (I think Nehru was a millionaire who went to Harrrow and then Oxford).

Regarding Harry - there is no-one ethnic in his circle (which is military). So unlikely he'll marry someone like that (because he won't get a chance to meet her - but that's down to the circle mostly)
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« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2012, 03:20:51 PM »

^Boris has also a mixed heritage, his great-great grandfather was Turkish, and he has Jewish blood, too.

I think it´s interesting that Queen Charlotte is said to be black



IA, if he marries a non-white Princess or wealthy woman, I think they would accept it in his circles.

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« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2012, 03:35:01 PM »

^^ There was a lot of mixing in British aristocrat circles in the 18th century.

I think our first mixed race Prime Minister was the Earl of Liverpool (who served in the early 19thC) - his great-grandmother was gujurati - I think his grandfather was in India in that early optimistic period under Warren Hastings in the 18thC. It was definitely a very different attitude to that which went on in the United States which was obsessed with race from the beginning (I think the war of independence was triggered by the House of Lords ruling that slavery was incompatible with English Common law, which prompted all the slave owners in the USA to agitate for independence). 
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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2012, 04:30:03 PM »

To be honest: most people marry people that fit into their circle, so I don't quite see why royals should be different. The current crop of future regents have all married "on the outskirts" of their circles so I can't really see where the discussion would go. By now it would almost be more surprising if Harry married another royal or "just" some nobleborn woman.
I don't really get the fitting into ones circle party and I am sorry to pin point but a far as education, personnel qualities like manners etc or even wealth is concerned there are many people from different religion and race that can go head to head with harry's elite social circle (i actually don't think that Kate fits this criteria in terms of intelligence or personality is concerned p, even today the richest person in England is actually Indian.i think the not fitting in the circle comes from the backward thinking of the past that elites just refuse to give up like the class system that still exist in England.
The richest man in the world is mexican with arab heritage, in the aristo circle its not only about the money, but about blood and heritage, i dont think they are racist or something like that (well they cant show it) but its the same as how many indian men marries a caucasian woman? or viceversa?? I bet it is more difficult to marry in an indian, black, asian, etc family than to a caucasian one. Aristos i dont understand why are they so great, they dont do nothing for the society but party, and live off the money they have.. i think its more a tradition thing..

I said the richest man in England.the case with India is different because we do not have a multi culture citizens in general, but even here inter cast marriage are no big deal now days which was not the case a decade our do ago.i don't think aristocratic are very intelligent or very educated or productive or superior people but I get this vibe from the articles that I read about them that they think that they are special because of their birth and a lot of brits also think the same .i also think it is traditions that make them think this way but traditions generate from the past and racism is a very big part of aristocratic traditions plus the class system, again I don't think they all are racist but it could be the more modern form of that type of prejudice in the case of rf
Im really sorry if im not explained good at the beginning, what i wanted to say its that a mexican-arab its the richest man in the world, and more if an indian is richer that those snobbish aristos, all they care is about money and blood, but there are people who are richer than them, and thats the funny thing is: because of that these circles are going to get mixed with new people of all races and background and maybe in not so far away future they are going to get mixed, lets not forget that a certain prince has a black son.....
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« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2012, 04:37:05 PM »

I don't see It happening based on the women he dated and his friends
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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2012, 04:38:49 PM »

^^ There was a lot of mixing in British aristocrat circles in the 18th century.

I think our first mixed race Prime Minister was the Earl of Liverpool (who served in the early 19thC) - his great-grandmother was gujurati - I think his grandfather was in India in that early optimistic period under Warren Hastings in the 18thC. It was definitely a very different attitude to that which went on in the United States which was obsessed with race from the beginning (I think the war of independence was triggered by the House of Lords ruling that slavery was incompatible with English Common law, which prompted all the slave owners in the USA to agitate for independence).  

Emily, all due respect, but that was not a root cause of the US Revolution.  All wars are in their essence fought over money in its various forms (taxation, land & territory) and in the case of the US revolution, you have to look to the land settlements made in the wake of the French & Indian wars, monopolies on goods awarded by the Crown and imposed on the Americas, & taxation issues.

The "hotbed" for US independence, moreover, was most certainly not the slave-owning South, which got along very comfortably with the British upper-class notions of race and caste (imperial India ring a bell, perhaps?)  The places which were the hottest agitation for independence was the fiercely non-slave-owning population of the northeast, in particular Boston, New York, and Philadelphia.  Finally, the slave-owning South fought hardest against declaring independence as they had a financial stake in remaining part of a complicated trade of raw goods for finished products with the British Empire (money again!)

Because it seems to me that your education may have included some pretty radical white-washing of the causes of the US revolution, I won't address the "obsessed" with race commentary except to say that the US was the product of the British system, which traded openly in slavery particularly in its Caribbean island holdings and any such "obsessions", should they actually exist, would be the natural product of the system which birthed it.

As to Harry - I'd stand up and cheer if he married a woman of his own choosing and with joy in his heart, no matter her race.  But I know Southern Belle has some very specific ideas about who his bride should be...am I right?   Champagne
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 04:54:04 PM by Curtains » Logged

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