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Author Topic: The Romanovs  (Read 42527 times)
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rosella

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« Reply #165 on: September 13, 2015, 06:10:12 AM »

The remains of the Tsarevich and Marie were found apart from the other family members and so a lot of controversy started about their authenticity, I believe because the other members of the Imperial family are canonised or are on their way to being. I think the Orthodox Church wanted a representative to be present when these remains were first tested and it wasn't done. So there has been a stand-off.
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« Reply #166 on: September 13, 2015, 08:21:38 AM »

The whole family, including Alexei and Maria, were canonized as passion bearers by the Orthodox Church in 2000.

I believe the Russian Orthodox Church not believing the remains are a mix of politics and religious reasons. It's not just the remains of Alexei and Maria that they don't believe in but Nicholas, Alexandra, Olga, Tatiana and Anastasia's remains as well.

The Soviet government told so many lies about what happened to the Imperial family that even after the fall of Communism, the Church, which naturally distrusted them, still has trouble believing anything the government tells them. Basically yet another unfortunate legacy of the Soviet Union even though its been gone for close to 25 years.

Also since they are saints its very important that any relics for veneration, such as their remains, are genuine and not fraud. There can be no doubt about the authenticity of a holy relic. They just want to be 100% sure considering how awful and messy they were originally buried in 1918 (failed use of acid, failed use of hand grenades, failed burials and reburials etc). It was 73 years in between the murders and the digging up of the remains so it was a long time behind enemy lines where anything could have happened.

from 2013
http://www.angelfire.com/...ian-royal-family-remains/

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"In my opinion, a very wide range of competent experts, not necessarily just Orthodox experts, should be allowed to study the discovered remains," Father Vsevolod said.
 
It is important both to compare the DNA of some individual fragment with the DNA of the remains of other Imperial Family members, assess the wholeness of the skeletons, establish whether or not all of the found human remains have the same DNA and confirm the presence of former injuries, for example the injury that was sustained by Tsar Nicholas II during his trip to Japan when he was the heir to the Russian throne, the archpriest said.
 
There is also a need to compare different theories describing how the bodies were disposed of and buried, he said.

from 2002
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h...media_reports/2134727.stm

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The head of the Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Alexy II, recently told the Russian news agency ITAR-TASS that it is an "incontrovertible fact that Bolshevik executors of the Romanovs completely destroyed the remains".

"The Church experts trusted the results of the 1918 investigation by the Sokolov group which said the bodies of Nicholas II and his family members had been dissected and destroyed with sulphuric acid," the patriarch said.
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« Reply #167 on: September 25, 2015, 02:48:09 AM »

Russia exhumes bones of murdered Tsar Nicholas and wife

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34338802

Russian investigators have exhumed the remains of the last tsar and his wife, as they re-examine their 1918 murders.

Samples were taken from Tsar Nicholas II, his wife Alexandra, and from the bloodstained uniform of Alexander II, Nicholas's grandfather, killed in 1881.

The Romanov family members, who were killed by revolutionary Bolsheviks, are buried at a St Petersburg cathedral.

The Orthodox Church wants to confirm family links before other relatives can be reburied with them.

The long-running murder case had been closed in 1998, after DNA tests authenticated the Romanov remains found in a mass grave in the Urals in 1991.

But the DNA tests did not convince some Russian Orthodox Church members, because the remains of two - Tsarevich Alexei and Grand Duchess Maria - were found only in 2007, at a different spot in the Urals.

The Investigative Committee, a state body, says new checks are needed in order to authenticate the remains of those two.

Russia plans to rebury Alexei and Maria alongside the rest of the family in St Petersburg's Peter and Paul Cathedral. But for that to happen the Church wants to be certain about the remains.

Hail of bullets

Tsar Nicholas II, Alexandra, their four daughters - grand duchesses Anastasia, Maria, Olga and Tatiana - their son the Tsarevich Alexei and four royal staff members were murdered in the cellar of a house in Yekaterinburg in 1918.

One night they were lined up as if for a family photo, and then a Bolshevik firing squad killed them in a hail of bullets, according to witness accounts. Those who did not die immediately were bayonetted.

The royal couple and three daughters were formally reburied on 17 July 1998 - the 80th anniversary of the murder. They were canonised by the Russian Orthodox Church in 2000.

Alexei and Maria are also likely to be canonised before the 100th anniversary in 2018. Their remains are currently kept at the Russian State Archives.

The new investigation also involves taking samples from Alexandra's sister the Grand Duchess Elizabeth Fyodorovna, buried in Jerusalem. Only now can Russian investigators get access to those remains.

Support from descendants

The Romanovs were ousted from power and exiled in 1917, shortly before the communist Bolsheviks overthrew the provisional government.

Documents from the so-called "White Guards Investigation" concerning the family's 1918 murder will also be studied. They came to light in the past four years.

Tsar Alexander II was killed by a bomb thrown by a "People's Will" revolutionary in 1881, and buried in his military uniform in the Peter and Paul Cathedral.

A lawyer for Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, a descendant of the murdered Romanovs, said she supported the new investigation.

Quoted by Russia's Tass news agency, lawyer German Lukyanov said "not all aspects of the imperial family's murder were explained in the case, and not all the Russian Orthodox Church's questions were answered fully and clearly".

"The grand duchess hopes that the examination of the Yekaterinburg remains will be scientific... The truth must be established in this case, with an answer to the main question: whose are these remains?"
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« Reply #168 on: September 29, 2015, 12:34:04 AM »

Remains of Grand Duchess Elizaveta Feodorovna may be included in royal family inquiry - Russian Investigative Committee

http://www.interfax-relig...m/?act=news&div=12361

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Moscow, September 28, Interfax - The Russian Investigative Committee does not rule out that samples of the remains of Grand Duchess Elizaveta Feodorovna may be delivered from Israel to Moscow for a new examination within the royal family inquiry but a final decision has yet to be made.

"We are holding negotiations with the Russian Orthodox Church. This is a very complicated matter: international relations and the delivery from a foreign country. A final decision has yet to be made," senior investigator of the Russian Investigative Committee main criminal investigation department Vladimir Solovyov told Interfax.

Future Great Duchess Elizabeth, the one of British Queen Victoria's favorite granddaughters, was born in Germany and spent her early years in England. She was a sister of Empress Alexandra Feodorovna and a daughter of Grand Duke of Giessen Darmstadt. She was brought up in Christian spirit and compassion.

She was a Protestant, but during her pilgrimage to the Holy Land she adopted Orthodoxy and after her husband Moscow general-governor Sergey Alexandrovich Romanov had been killed by the terrorist, she founded famous Sts Martha and Mary Convent in 1909 where nuns combined prayer with active social ministry, helping the sick and wounded, especially during World War I. People called Grand Duchess Elizabeth the White Angel of Russia.

She refused to leave Russia during revolutionary days and was arrested in spring of 1918 and martyred in a duffer Novay Selimskaya not far from Alapayevsk, the Yekaterinburg Region. Elizaveta Feodorovna was canonized as saint by the Russian Orthodox Church.

The Stanford testing in 2004 of a finger allegedly belonging to Ella that didn't match the DNA of Alexandra so her remains have also been in question. Hopefully its all resolved
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« Reply #169 on: September 29, 2015, 04:48:56 AM »

I thought they conclusively had determined those were remains of Ella and the rest who were killed at Alapayevsk back in 1918? I don't think the Bolsheviks thought far enough ahead to get bodies that could mimic Ella, Ioann, and the rest.

I hadn't heard of the DNA of what is thought to be Ella's finger not matching Alexandra's DNA before. That's interesting.
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Ellie

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« Reply #170 on: September 29, 2015, 05:28:18 AM »

The Orthodox Church has long not believed these were the remains mostly because of the Americans involved in the initial case, as far as I can recall from my Romanov-obsessed years. It's a power struggle, honestly, with the church.
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« Reply #171 on: November 07, 2015, 08:53:55 PM »

New book re GD Tatiana Nicolaevna:

Tatiana Romanov: Diaries and Letters, 1913-1918
http://www.amazon.com/dp/...sim/?tag=theworldofroyalt
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Ellie

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« Reply #172 on: November 08, 2015, 07:15:34 AM »

My friend is the one who translated it. She's hoping to get more out there about Maria and Anastasia, too, in the next few years after some visits to GARF in Moscow but it's expensive. There's also Olga's diary, which is sometimes boring, and sometimes sweet with random observations.

Adding a link here if anyone's interested. It's free through Kindle unlimited if you have that. This family was my number one obsession through out my teen years so I could go on about them... Haha.
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editorathome
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« Reply #173 on: November 08, 2015, 04:08:03 PM »

My friend is the one who translated it. She's hoping to get more out there about Maria and Anastasia, too, in the next few years after some visits to GARF in Moscow but it's expensive. There's also Olga's diary, which is sometimes boring, and sometimes sweet with random observations.

Adding a link here if anyone's interested. It's free through Kindle unlimited if you have that. This family was my number one obsession through out my teen years so I could go on about them... Haha.
How interesting! Thanks for the link.
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Ellie

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« Reply #174 on: November 08, 2015, 08:26:31 PM »

You're welcome! I know there's a short companion piece with bits from Maria and Anastasia, as well, not a full length book, but letters and some diary entries. The letters from Anastasia to Nicholas are adorable. She had such spirit.
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« Reply #175 on: November 25, 2015, 07:28:26 PM »

Great-grandson of Alexander III died in Australia. He was poor, alone, and unknown and his body went unidentified in morgue for 2 months. Sad.
http://www.ntnews.com.au/...ry-fnk2tg5d-1227622811537
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« Reply #176 on: November 25, 2015, 07:47:00 PM »

Very sad, poor Olga had a very tough life it looks like Leonid had one as well.  R.I.P.
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« Reply #177 on: November 25, 2015, 08:44:13 PM »


that's really sad...royal or not, to die alone and with nobody claiming your body is sad.
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« Reply #178 on: October 07, 2016, 06:07:33 AM »

New article about the execution of the Royal Family:
http://www.townandcountry...2/russian-tsar-execution/
http://www.townandcountry...2/russian-tsar-execution/
I can only remark on how exceptionally vile and violent it was - it seems with all the Grand Duchess Anastasia imposters (& a Disney movie too) it seemed mysterious and almost like folk lore. What a horrific experience for the family. 
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« Reply #179 on: January 01, 2017, 05:31:37 PM »

Oldest relative of last Russian Emperor dies in Denmark at 90

Prince Dimitri Romanov, the oldest relative of the last Russian Emperor Nicholas II, has died in Denmark, his wife Princess Feodora said. The prince was 90. According to his wife, last week he was taken to hospital due to a dramatic decline in health.

"Dimitri Romanovich died at hospital on the evening of December 31," Princess Romanova said.

Dimitri Romanov was born on May 17, 1926, in Cap d'Antibes, France, where his parents lived in emigration. He was a direct descendant of the last Russian Emperor Nicholas II, as his father, Roman Petrovich Romanov, was the Emperor?s second cousin and godson.

A historian and a writer, Prince Dimitri lived in Denmark for the recent years where he headed a Romanov family's charity foundation aimed at helping Russian hospitals and orphan homes. In October 2016, he came to Moscow for the last time to receive the Order of St. Alexander, a Russian state award, for his great contribution to the spread of the knowledge of Russia's historical and cultural heritage.


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