Queen Camilla or Princess Consort?

[Lemon drizzle]

Perhaps she will not want be known as queen. The decision to be known by her current was hers. People seem to forget that the POW title was not created exclusively for the first wife and, also that they were in fact divorced and she would not have been queen anyway.

When Charles becomes king, there's noting to stop Camilla being known as the Dowager Duchess of Cornwall ??

Only that it would imply she's Charles's widow rather than his wife.

Wouldn't Camilla styled as Princess Consort instead of Queen Consort be a diplomatic nightmare? She will have to bow/give precedence  to European Queen Consorts in a post-Brexit age. 

Since we are discussing this, if I remember it right, one of the very salomonic impositions from HM to allow the wedding, was that Camilla will be the last princess in precedence. She was not to be awarded the second woman of the realm's rank given to her as PoW. Do I remember this right? Is this still standing?

I said it before and I'll say it again, if Charles succeeds her mother, Camilla will be queen, she is the love of his life, I'm sure he regrets not having had the fight before for here, there is no way he will let her be downgraded. And I'm glad that is the case.

I think the lack of POW title is her/Charles' choice as Diana being POW was too fresh in people's minds back then; I seem to remember it being deemed insensitive for  Camilla to use that title although by virtue of being married to the Prince of Wales she is the Princess of Wales

[anastasia beaverhausen]

Yeah...IIRC Anne refused to give precedence to Camilla.  It started the whole with vs without husband thing.  Granted other royals families seem to have something similar but it just seems petty AF all around.  They thought that someone is more or less important within their own family depending on if their are or are not with their spouse...it’s just a bit much for me.

I completely agree OC. I understand that the whole idea of monarchy is based upon precedence and one person being more important than another, but in 2020 it seems archaic, especially when precedence is fueled by gender.

[lynda]

Charles was always in love with Camilla....just couldn't make up his mind to marry--left and went off in the Navy...came back she married (got tired of waiting)...had two children (which you NEVER read about---very quiet in their own lives)..............Charles had to marry, Diana's sister said no, Diana said yes......had two children.   
divorced...and she died
he "finally" married is first love...Camilla
I think she has made him smile and brought Charles happiness & peace and help in his role.....
Camilla paid the price for many years has being the "other" woman
its
been a long time...................let Camilla be QUEEN.its time
if William or Harry don't lie it....so what---its their Dads life
(my opinion only)

[Duchess of Verona]

It's not just 'Charles Life'. It's not whether William or Stinkerbell like it. It's a matter of being Head of the Church and Defender of the Faith as well as King. I know lots of Camilla sugars want to gloss that over. But now that it's getting to be about the time to get serious on the subject, lets not all pretend it's what ever he wants. He got away with marrying her by making certain agreements.  This isnt Oh I married my mistress and the sons dont like it. Time to be on the currency.

[Aubiette]

Fascinating thread everyone. A lot of things brought up and explained that I had never even considered.    

[Konradin]

It's not just 'Charles Life'. It's not whether William or Stinkerbell like it. It's a matter of being Head of the Church and Defender of the Faith as well as King. I know lots of Camilla sugars want to gloss that over. But now that it's getting to be about the time to get serious on the subject, lets not all pretend it's what ever he wants. He got away with marrying her by making certain agreements.  This isnt Oh I married my mistress and the sons dont like it. Time to be on the currency.

Since we are discussing that title, "Defender of The Faith", "Head" of the Church of England, does that matter anymore? What about the rest of his subjects who are either muslims, hindu, roman catholic, presbiterian, etc? Do they care about that? And the divorce subjects who remarried and do give a damn about religion? For the sake of form, if Andrea dies first, they could marry again in the church but honestly... 

She will be queen, in no world I could see Charles letting her be diminished in front of the world. And it think the time for us to watch that is very close, not that I wish HM to die but still... she is old, so is the DoE, HM could emulate her mother and live over 100 years, I mean, she is a very healthy person, very thrifty, that could happen but even the QM, in the end, had to be carried from side to side, she used two sticks to be able to move a bit, let's hope it does not get to that.

[Lemon drizzle]

Prince Charles has said he will be Defender of Faith to encompass all religions worshipped in the UK.

https://www.telegraph.co....as-Defender-of-Faith.html

[Nappyolean]

Charles wants to be the “defender of all faiths”. To me, that is very forward thinking. One word that can “modernize” a monarchy that built the C of E, “all vs. the.” That unifies the diversity of London, the U.K., the Commonwealth, and frankly, the world. If Charles is making family strategic decisions now, as has been reported, he is walking the walk with his speech to the Palestinians, Kate and William and their Auschwitz activities. He is supporting all faiths. And frankly, his ex couldn’t control him while she was alive, she certainly isn’t going to control him 20 odd years later in her death. Charles will do what he feels is right and what he wants to do. Camilla will be Queen consort. Words matter to Charles.

[Duchess of Verona]

Not sure he has the right to randomly change the title to encompass all faiths. Fidei Defensor  aka Defender of the Faith was conferred on Henry VIII by Pope Leo X  by Papal Decree before the whole Anne Boleyn mess. All British coins have FD or FED DEF on them. Do you take them all out of circulation and strike all new currency?

[Nappyolean]

When Charles becomes King, isn’t new currency distributed with his picture? At that point, he could make other subtle changes, too. Whether or not he is allowed to remove or add other symbols to the money is nothing I know about. But, heck, he will be King, he probably can change his motto.

[Konradin]

Charles wants to be the “defender of all faiths”. To me, that is very forward thinking. One word that can “modernize” a monarchy that built the C of E, “all vs. the.” That unifies the diversity of London, the U.K., the Commonwealth, and frankly, the world. If Charles is making family strategic decisions now, as has been reported, he is walking the walk with his speech to the Palestinians, Kate and William and their Auschwitz activities. He is supporting all faiths. And frankly, his ex couldn’t control him while she was alive, she certainly isn’t going to control him 20 odd years later in her death. Charles will do what he feels is right and what he wants to do. Camilla will be Queen consort. Words matter to Charles.

It's a subtle change, one that does not require him to do anything hard nor pass a law by the Parliament, he just have to say it and live accordingly, i.e. going to other services, be respectful, meeting people from different religions, nothing really difficult when it comes to that and the value will be enormous, especially in a country where the are lots of different cultures, remnants of the empire, and where the commonwealth is still very much alive, it's a way also to strengthen those ties before any talk of republic comes to either NZ, Australia o Canada, even if by now it is just a matter of changing words.

I know he is part of the old guard, by age mostly, and still some way of thinking the monarchy that still lingers, he could be the bridge between his mother and son, in terms of ways of kingship, that is.

[Ellie]

I see no issue with it - Charles is a religious Christian man himself and it is not like he is saying he will be representative of all faiths. Life has changed since his mother became queen; Britain is not a Christian nation anymore, religion-wise despite the culture of Christianity that won't go away anytime soon. He's shown an interest in other faiths but clearly is a Christian who has worked for Christian charities and causes himself - like involving with charities that get Christians out of areas where they are being murdered and persecuted.

[Oh_Caroline]

I don't think it would be a good idea for Charles to change the title of the monarch but rather he should focus on living a life that aligns with being "defender of the faiths".  Actions not words.  Respect the history of his title and at the same time the multinationality and religious diversity of modern Britain (and his other realms).

He may have enough trouble on his hands with the "Queen Camilla" thing without rocking the boat on how the monarch is styled.

When was the last time the sovereign decided to change their title without the direction and advice of their ministers?

[Lady Liebe]

I don't think it would be a good idea for Charles to change the title of the monarch but rather he should focus on living a life that aligns with being "defender of the faiths".  Actions not words.  Respect the history of his title and at the same time the multinationality and religious diversity of modern Britain (and his other realms).

He may have enough trouble on his hands with the "Queen Camilla" thing without rocking the boat on how the monarch is styled.

When was the last time the sovereign decided to change their title without the direction and advice of their ministers?

    

Could not agree more.

[fairy]

I agree with that above! Words and phrases are important, but actions count even more.
However I am not much concerned about any trouble regarding Camilla's title: in some respect the monarchy in Britain is well atuned to the public feelings. They have weathered a lot of storms and I believe that the animosity towards Camilla has softened immensely. I could imagine a lot more problems on the horizon should they change a running system: the female spouses have always shared the title. Should they now deviate from that system, the question whether a person marrying in has any right to be elevated into those circles might pop up and bite them into their royal noses.