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Author Topic: Religion and the royals  (Read 17989 times)
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PrincessRoyal

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« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2012, 11:57:50 PM »

In response to the confirmation question, I think there is often a falling off between baptism and confirmation. And unless I'm mistaken, confirmation in the CofE is no longer seen by the general public as a big deal rite of passage the way it is in the Lutheran church.  I think even in the Roman Catholic church, there are many who are adult members of the church who were never confirmed.

And as far as William's non church-going, I think that's pretty characteristic of his generation, unless we're talking about people from an evangelical Christian background.  That's not excusing William, as the potential future head of the Church of England.

Speaking of crosses, I was a little taken aback at the cross that Edward had made as part of Sophie's wedding jewelry. It just didn't seem like the sort of jewelry one wears on one's wedding day. Does anybody know if they are regular church-goers? 

I agree with you that many Catholics adults aren't confirmed but you are only a full member of the Catholic Church if your are baptized, have your first communion and are confirmed., but to be confirmed is more or less consecutively.  I actually don't know if this is the same at the CoE.
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bumbershoot

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« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2012, 12:06:28 AM »

Well, I think no member of the British Royal Family has had the kind of big-deal confirmation Mette-Marit's son Marius had on Sunday. And his was very typical of those in the Scandinavian countries and in Lutheran communities worldwide.

Interestingly, many parents in Norway who are not particularly religions, opt to have their children go through a civil confirmation process instead. This practice, which began in 1951, emphasizes civil responsibilities and the practice has now spread to Denmark and maybe Sweden, too. The Human Ethics Society administers the civil confirmations, which mark the youths' entry into adult responsibilities. In Norway, girls receive their bunads -- regional folk costumes -- for their confirmations, regardless of whether they are civil or religious.

Confirmation is administered at different times in different religious groups, too. I think that in the Orthodox church, confirmation and first eucharist are both administered at the same time as infant baptism.

And that raises another question. I know that Anne-Marie went from Lutheranism to the Orthodox church. Philip went from the Orthodox Church to the Church of England. And Sofia went from Orthodoxy to the Roman Catholic Church. I wonder if these folks had to go through special conversion ceremonies or get rebaptized. I have a feeling that the Orthodox church may require re-baptism, and considering that this is by immersion, that might have been kind of a big deal for 18-year-old Anne-Marie. Does anyone know?
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KittyHeaven

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« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2012, 12:10:37 AM »

In response to the confirmation question, I think there is often a falling off between baptism and confirmation. And unless I'm mistaken, confirmation in the CofE is no longer seen by the general public as a big deal rite of passage the way it is in the Lutheran church.  I think even in the Roman Catholic church, there are many who are adult members of the church who were never confirmed. And as far as William's non church-going, I think that's pretty characteristic of his generation, unless we're talking about people from an evangelical Christian background.  That's not excusing William, as the potential future head of the Church of England.

Speaking of crosses, I was a little taken aback at the cross that Edward had made as part of Sophie's wedding jewelry. It just didn't seem like the sort of jewelry one wears on one's wedding day. Does anybody know if they are regular church-goers?  

It's probably a fairly recent thing if that is true...confined to young people growing up in the last generation or so. Confirmation was/is needed to have a Catholic wedding, for example...it's considered essential, one of the seven sacraments. People who choose to forgo it in a way are not full members of the Church, as Princess Royal pointed out.

A priest will not marry you in a Church wedding without Confirmation in the Catholic Church.

I know that most American dioceses in the U.S. have moved up the age of confirmation from about 12-13 to the age of about 16 to give young people a fuller and more complete understanding of what it means.

ETA: A baptized Protestant who converts to Catholicism is not re-baptised...as long as the Trinitarian formula("I baptise you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost") is utilized it is considered as valid a baptism as a Catholic one.

A convert needs only to make a full Profession of Faith, which is usually done in Church before a priest and witnesses and that is it.
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bumbershoot

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« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2012, 12:15:54 AM »

I agree but I think there is a large falling off. For some reason, it seems very essential for parents to have their kids make their first communions, but they are much less motivated -- unless the kids are in Catholic schools -- to follow through with confirmation any more.  I would suppose that might well be happening in the Church of England too, particularly as the nation moves toward greater secularization.
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tigerben
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« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2012, 12:23:52 AM »

Do the children as here take a saints name for confirmation? God before the Internet , we had to trawl through books on our choosen saint. I picked Moncha( Irish for Monica, dynasty was all the rage  Shocked) which is now ideal, as she is the patron saint of housewives , which I'm one now!
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PrincessRoyal

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« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2012, 12:31:39 AM »

Do the children as here take a saints name for confirmation? God before the Internet , we had to trawl through books on our choosen saint. I picked Moncha( Irish for Monica, dynasty was all the rage  Shocked) which is now ideal, as she is the patron saint of housewives , which I'm one now!

I'm Catholic and from Germany and we don't have to take a saints name for confirmation. But I think it's a nice gesture. I know that my protestant friends had to choose a part of the bible (a psalm or another sentence) when they had their confirmation.
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KittyHeaven

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« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2012, 12:34:28 AM »

Do the children as here take a saints name for confirmation? God before the Internet , we had to trawl through books on our choosen saint. I picked Moncha( Irish for Monica, dynasty was all the rage  Shocked) which is now ideal, as she is the patron saint of housewives , which I'm one now!

Ha! We had to do that. I remember it well....going through all those Lives of the Saints trying to find something suitable!
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bumbershoot

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« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2012, 01:04:50 AM »

Well, some of my Catholic friends are so eager to have their kids marry  (often after living together for years) that they aren't making a bit deal of it if it is a civil marriage only or even if it takes place in some other church. Frankly I've been surprised at some very observant Catholic friends' acceptance of their kids marriage plans regardless of where and under what circumstances, with or without confirmation first.  And certainly the BRF, both Sophie and Edward and William and Kate lived together before marriage. I wonder what CofE officials thought about that?
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BessieWallis Warfield

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« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2012, 01:05:35 AM »

I didn't go through any book for my saint's name.  My aunt suggested "Marie."    Sold.   As you can tell, I gave it a whole lotta thought.  

Bumbershoot, I have heard of the non-religious confirmation in Scandinavian countries - which does not surprise me as I believe most Scandinavians now are non-religious.  I married a Jewish guy.  No religious ceremonies for our kids.  When our oldest turned 13, we gave him a laptop for his birthday, and told him he was a man.  I'm sure he uses that laptop to surf for what all men surf for..... Whistle  
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TLLK

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« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2012, 04:16:44 AM »

I didn't go through any book for my saint's name.  My aunt suggested "Marie."    Sold.   As you can tell, I gave it a whole lotta thought.  

Bumbershoot, I have heard of the non-religious confirmation in Scandinavian countries - which does not surprise me as I believe most Scandinavians now are non-religious.  I married a Jewish guy.  No religious ceremonies for our kids.  When our oldest turned 13, we gave him a laptop for his birthday, and told him he was a man.  I'm sure he uses that laptop to surf for what all men surf for..... Whistle  
Oy Vey!!!!
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tigerben
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« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2012, 03:22:33 PM »

Do the children as here take a saints name for confirmation? God before the Internet , we had to trawl through books on our choosen saint. I picked Moncha( Irish for Monica, dynasty was all the rage  Shocked) which is now ideal, as she is the patron saint of housewives , which I'm one now!

Ha! We had to do that. I remember it well....going through all those Lives of the Saints trying to find something suitable!





Thanks girls   Star Kittyheaven , wasn't it a drag , my eldest girl just googled names and it was so easy for her to write about her saint. We had a Nun teacher for 6 th class which is confirmation year, Sr.Claire , by God could she smack you with a ruler on the tips of your fingers if you didn't do your homework on yr choosen saint. Then the priest would come in and grill you. Smiley Happy days.... When my elder sister couldn't decide on what name, Sr Claire decided for her and she had to have Claire as her saints name !
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KittyHeaven

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« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2012, 04:07:46 PM »

tigerben, I almost chose "Claire" because she was BFF's with my favorite, St Francis of Assisi! 
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TLLK

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« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2012, 04:20:37 PM »

Do the children as here take a saints name for confirmation? God before the Internet , we had to trawl through books on our choosen saint. I picked Moncha( Irish for Monica, dynasty was all the rage  Shocked) which is now ideal, as she is the patron saint of housewives , which I'm one now!

Ha! We had to do that. I remember it well....going through all those Lives of the Saints trying to find something suitable!





Thanks girls   Star Kittyheaven , wasn't it a drag , my eldest girl just googled names and it was so easy for her to write about her saint. We had a Nun teacher for 6 th class which is confirmation year, Sr.Claire , by God could she smack you with a ruler on the tips of your fingers if you didn't do your homework on yr choosen saint. Then the priest would come in and grill you. Smiley Happy days.... When my elder sister couldn't decide on what name, Sr Claire decided for her and she had to have Claire as her saints name !
I have to say that my Catholic school experience in CA was a lot easier. 
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BessieWallis Warfield

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« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2012, 04:30:28 PM »

I always found a direct correlation between the malevolence of the nun and how masculine her nun's name was.  Any guy's name in her name - Joseph, Patrick, Luke, etc, the worse she was. 
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tigerben
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« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2012, 04:36:09 PM »

 Grin she was strict, and she still involved with the school as religion director!!! Thankfully I've never had a nun with a male saints name , but that is a good corellation!
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