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Author Topic: Bavarian Royal - The Wittelsbacher  (Read 57283 times)
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« on: January 20, 2013, 05:40:37 AM »


here we go again - one TV show and another thread - these time it's the Bavarians.


THE HOUSE OF WITTELSBACH

The Wittelsbach family is a European royal family and a German dynasty from Bavaria.

Members of the family served as
Dukes, Electors and Kings of Bavaria (1180–1918),
Counts Palatine of the Rhine (1214–1803 and 1816–1918),
Margraves of Brandenburg (1323–1373),
Counts of Holland, Hainaut and Zeeland (1345–1432),
Elector-Archbishops of Cologne (1583–1761),
Dukes of Jülich and Berg (1614–1794/1806),
Kings of Sweden (1441–1448 and 1654–1720),
Dukes of Bremen-Verden (1654–1719).


The family also provided
2 Holy Roman Emperors (1328/1742),
1 King of the Romans (1400),
2 Anti-Kings of Bohemia (1619/1742),
1 King of Hungary (1305),
1 King of Denmark and Norway (1440)
1 King of Greece (1832–1862)


Founder
Otto I, Count of Scheyern

Final sovereign
Ludwig III of Bavaria

Current head    
Franz, Duke of Bavaria

Founding    
1180

Dissolution    
1918

Cadet branches    
House of Palatinate-Simmern (extinct)
House of Palatinate-Sulzbach (extinct)
House of Palatinate-Neumarkt (extinct)
House of Palatinate-Zweibrücken (extinct)
House of Palatinate-Birkenfeld


Origin
Berthold, Margrave in Bavaria (died 980), was the ancestor of Otto I, Count of Scheyern (died 1072), whose 3rd son Otto II, Count of Scheyern acquired the castle of Wittelsbach (near Aichach). The Counts of Scheyern left Burg Scheyern ("Scheyern Castle", constructed in about 940) in 1119 for Burg Wittelsbach ("Wittelsbach Castle").

Otto I's son Eckhard I, Count of Scheyern was father to the Count palatine of Bavaria Otto IV (died 1156), whose son Otto was invested with the Duchy of Bavaria in 1180 after the fall of Henry the Lion. Duke Otto's son Louis I, Duke of Bavaria acquired also the Electorate of the Palatinate in 1214.

List of Wittelsbacher Lines
    Niederbayern
    Oberbayern
    Bayern
    Oberbayern
    Bayern-München
    Bayern-Ingolstadt
    Bayern-Niederbayern
    Bayern-Straubing-Holland
    Bayern-Landshut
    Pfalz
    Kurlinie Heidelberg
    Mosbach
    Mosbach-Neumarkt
    Simmern-Zweibrücken
    Pfalz-Simmern-Sponheim
    Ältere Linie Simmern
    Jüngere Linie Simmern
    Pfalz-Zweibrücken-Veldenz
    Pfalz-Veldenz
    Pfalz-Lützelstein
    Pfalz-Veldenz-Lützelstein
    Pfalz-Neumarkt
    Pfalz-Neuburg-Hilpoltstein
    Pfalz-Neuburg
    Pfalz-Sulzbach II
    Pfalz-Sulzbach-Hilpoltstein
    Pfalz-Zweibrücken
    Pfalz-Zweibrücken, jüngere Linie
    Zweibrücken Landsberg
    Zweibrücken Kleeburg
    Pfalz-Sulzbach I (Hilpoltstein)
    Pfalz-Parkstein
    Pfalz-Birkenfeld
    Pfalz-Zweibrücken-Birkenfeld
    Pfalz-Birkenfeld-Bischweiler
    Pfalz-Birkenfeld-Gelnhausen
    Bretzenheim
    Hegnenberg-Dux
    Holnstein aus Bayern
    Parkstein
    Plottnitz-Stockhammer
    Wallersee


Dukes of Bayern/Ungarn (1305–1308), Brandenburg (1323–1373), Tirol (1342–1363), Holland und Hennegau (1346–1425)
- 1180–1183: Duke Otto I. of Wittelsbach (um 1117–1183), son of Otto V. von Scheyern
- 1183–1231: Ludwig I. the Kelheimer (1174–1231), son of Otto I.
- 1231–1253: Otto II. (1206–1253) the Illustrious, son of Ludwig I.


Lower Bavaria (1255–1340)/Hungary (1305–1308)
- 1253–1290: Heinrich XIII. = Heinrich I. lower Bavaria (1235–1290)
- 1290–1312: Otto III. (1261–1312), 1305–1308 also King of Hungary
   ab ca.1305–1310: with Stephan I.
- 1310–1312: with Otto IV. and Heinrich XIV. (the sons Stephan I.)
- 1312–1339: with/partially: Heinrich XIV., Otto IV. and Heinrich XV. (son of Otto III., der Natternberger).
- 1339–1340: Johann I. (son of Heinrich XIV.)


Oberbayern und Pfalz (1255–1329/1340)
- 1253–1294: Ludwig II. the Strict (1229–1294)
- 1294–1317: Rudolf I. the Stutterer (1274–1319)
- 1294–1347: Ludwig IV. the Bavarian (1282–1347)
   since 1314 roman-german King, since 1328 Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire

Bayern-Ingolstadt (1392–1447)
- 1375–1413 Stephan III.
- 1413–1447 Ludwig VII., the Bearded
- 1438–1445 Ludwig VIII., the Younger, 1447 starts the Dukedom Bayern-Landshut

Bayern-Landshut (1392–1503)
- 1375–1393 Friedrich, the Wise
- 1393–1450 Heinrich XVI., the Rich
- 1450–1479 Ludwig IX., the Rich
- 1479–1503 Georg, the Rich, 1505 starts the Dukedom Bayern-München.

Bayern-München (1392–1505)
- 1375–1397 Johann II.
- 1397–1438 Ernst
- 1397–1435 Wilhelm III.
- 1435–1441 Adolf
- 1438–1460 Albrecht III., the Pious
- 1460–1463 Johann IV.
- 1460–1467 Siegmund, then Duke of Bayern-Dachau
- 1465–1508 Albrecht IV., the Wise, unites all Bavarian lines in 1503

Bayern (1505–1623)
- 1505–1508 Albrecht IV., der Weise, vereinigt alle bayerischen Linien 1503
- 1508–1550 Wilhelm IV.
- 1508–1545 Ludwig X. in Landshut
- 1550–1579 Albrecht V., the Generous
- 1579–1598 Wilhelm V., the Pious
- 1598–1651 Maximilian, since 1597 regent with his father Wilhelm;

Roman-German Kings and Kaiser
- 1314–1347: Ludwig IV. the Bavarian
- 1400–1410: Ruprecht from the Pfalz
- 1742–1745: Karl VII. Albrecht

Kings of Schweden (1654–1720) and Dukes of Bremen-Verden (1654–1719)
- Karl X.Gustav 1654–1660
- Karl XI. 1660–1697
- Karl XII. 1697–1718
- Ulrike Eleonore 1718–1720

Kings of Bavaria
- Maximilian I. Joseph (1806–1825)
- Ludwig I. (1825–1848)
- Maximilian II. (1848–1864)
- Ludwig II. (1864–1886)
- Prince Regent Luitpold (1886–1912), Regent for Ludwig II. and afterwards also for Otto I.
- Otto Wilhelm Luitpold (1886–1916)
- Prince Regent Ludwig (1912–1913) after change in the Constitution of 1913 he became König Ludwig III.
- Ludwig III. (1913–1918)

Kings of Greece  (1832–1862)
- Otto I. (1832–1862) (abdication after the riot)

Heads of the House Wittelsbach (after 1918)
- Ludwig III. (1918–1921)
- Rupprecht von Bayern (1921–1955)
- Albrecht von Bayern (1955–1996)
- Franz von Bayern (since 1996)


Franz, Duke of Bavaria

Franz Bonaventura Adalbert Maria Herzog von Bayern, sometimes called in English Duke of Bavaria, (born 14 July 1933, as Franz Bonaventura Adalbert Maria von Bayern), styled as His Royal Highness the Duke of Bavaria, is head of the Wittelsbach family, the former ruling family of the Kingdom of Bavaria. His great-grandfather Ludwig III was the last King of Bavaria before being deposed in 1918.

Franz is also the current senior co-heir-general of King Charles I of England and Scotland, and thus as King Francis II is considered by Jacobites to be the legitimate "King over the Water", the heir of the Stuart kings of England, France, Scotland, and Ireland. "HRM the Duke generally does not comment on issues concerning his familiar relationship to the Royal House of Stuart," a spokesman told the media.

Franz was born in Munich, the son of Albrecht, Duke of Bavaria and his morganatic wife, Countess Maria Draskovich of Trakostjan of the House of Drašković, an ancient Croatian noble family. On 18 May 1949, when Franz was sixteen, his grandfather Crown Prince Rupprecht recognised the marriage of Franz's parents as dynastic and Franz became a prince of Bavaria.

The Wittelsbachs were opposed to the Nazi regime in Germany, and in 1939 Franz's father Albrecht took his family to Hungary. They lived in Budapest for four years before moving to their Castle at Sárvár in late 1943. In March 1944, Nazi Germany occupied Hungary, and on 6 October 1944, the entire family including Franz, then aged eleven, was arrested. They were sent to a series of Nazi concentration camps including Oranienburg and Dachau. At the end of April 1945 they were liberated by the United States Third Army.

After the war Franz received his high-school education at the Benedictine Abbey of Ettal. He then studied business management at the University of Munich and in Zurich. Franz developed a passion for collecting modern art; today many items from his private collection are on permanent loan to the Pinakothek der Moderne in Munich.

Franz lives in an apartment in Nymphenburg Palace, the former summer residence of the kings of Bavaria, in Munich.

Franz is the current Grand Master of the Royal Order of Saint George for the Defense of the Immaculate Conception. He is also Grand Master of the Order of Saint Hubert and the Order of Queen Theresa (for Ladies). He is a Senator of the University of Munich and an Honorary Member of the Bavarian Academy of Sciences and Humanities. He holds many honorary positions in civic and religious organisations in Bavaria. He supports charitable enterprises helping orphans in Romania.





House    House of Wittelsbach
Father    Albrecht, Duke of Bavaria
Mother    Countess Maria Draskovich of Trakostjan

Succession
Franz has remained unmarried. Unless he marries, and fathers a legitimate heir in his remaining years, on his death his position as head of the House of Wittelsbach will pass to his brother Prince Max, Duke in Bavaria. Because Max has no sons, the Bavarian titles will pass after his death to his second cousin Prince Luitpold of Bavaria and his descendants.





The order of succession after Duke Franz
The Monarchy of Bavaria was abolished in 1918. The current Head of the formerly ruling House of Wittelsbach is Franz, Duke of Bavaria.

The succession is determined by Article 2 of Title 2 of the 1818 Constitution of the Kingdom of Bavaria, which states "The crown is hereditary among the male descendants of the royal house according to the law of primogeniture and the agnatic lineal succession." The succession is further clarified by Title 5 of the Bavarian Royal Family Statute of 1819.

In 1948 and 1949 Crown Prince Rupprecht, with the agreement of the other members of the house, amended the house laws to allow the succession of the sons of princes who had married into comital houses. In 1999 Duke Franz, with the agreement of the other members of the house, amended the house laws further to allow the succession of the sons of any princes who married with the permission of the head of the house.

 1 Prince Max of Bavaria, Duke in Bavaria (born 1937)
 2 Prince Luitpold of Bavaria (born 1951)
 3 Prince Ludwig of Bavaria (born 1982)
 4 Prince Heinrich of Bavaria (born 1986)
 5 Prince Karl of Bavaria (born 1987)
 6 Pater Florian von Bayern, O.S.B. (born 1957)
 7 Prince Wolfgang of Bavaria (born 1960)
 8 Prince Tassilo of Bavaria (born 1992)
 9 Prince Richard of Bavaria (born 1993)
10 Prince Philipp of Bavaria (born 1996)
11 Prince Christoph of Bavaria (born 1962)
12 Prince Corbinian of Bavaria (born 1996)
13 Prince Stanislaus of Bavaria (born 1997)
14 Prince Marcello of Bavaria (born 1998)
15 Prince Leopold of Bavaria (born 1943)
16 Prince Manuel of Bavaria (born 1972)
17 Prince Leopold of Bavaria (born 2007)
18 Prince Konstantin of Bavaria (born 1986)
19 Prince Adalbert of Bavaria (born 1944)
20 Prince Hubertus of Bavaria (born 1989)
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2013, 05:41:41 AM »

Max-Emanuel, Duke in Bavaria (heir presumtive)





(~) Max-Emanuel Ludwig Maria Herzog in Bayern, sometimes styled Prince Max of Bavaria, Duke in Bavaria, born 21 January 1937 as son of Albrecht, Duke of Bavaria, is the heir presumptive to both the headship of the former Bavarian Royal House and the Jacobite Succession. He uses the title "Herzog in Bayern" or Duke in Bavaria, since he was adopted as an adult by his great-uncle, Duke Ludwig Wilhelm in Bavaria, the last bearer of that title.

(+) Elisabeth was born at Stockholm, Sweden on 31 December 1940. She was the first daughter of Count Carl Ludvig Douglas and Ottora Maria Haas-Heye.


The Bavarian Royal Family
HRH Max-Emanuel Ludwig Maria, The Duke in Bavaria (~)
HRH Princess Elisabeth, The Duchess in Bavaria (+)
* Duchess Sophie Elizabeth Marie Gabrielle in Bavaria (born 28 October 1967 in Munich). She married Alois, Hereditary Prince of Liechtenstein.
        Prince Joseph Wenzel of Liechtenstein (born 24 May 1995 in London)
        Princess Marie-Caroline of Liechtenstein (born 17 October 1996 in Grabs, Canton of St. Gallen)
        Prince Georg of Liechtenstein (born 20 April 1999 in Grabs)
        Prince Nikolaus of Liechtenstein (born 6 December 2000, in Grabs)
* Duchess Marie-Caroline Hedwig Eleonore in Bavaria (born 23 June 1969 in Munich). She married Duke Philipp of Württemberg (son of Carl, Duke of Württemberg) in a civil ceremony in Altshausen and a religious ceremony on 27 July 1991 in Tegernsee. They have four children:
        Duchess Sophie Anastasia Assunta Marie Pauline of Württemberg (born 15 January 1994 in Munich)
        Duchess Pauline Philippa Adelheid Helena Marie of Württemberg (born 15 April 1997 in London)
        Duke Carl-Theodor Philipp Maria Max Emanuel of Württemberg (born 15 June 1999 in London)
        Duchess Anna Maximiliana Elizabeth Mariella Marie of Württemberg (born 1 February 2007 in London)
* Duchess Helena Eugenie Maria Donatha Mechthild in Bavaria (born 6 May 1972 in Munich)
* Duchess Elisabeth Marie Christine Franziska in Bavaria (born 4 October 1973 in Munich). She married Daniel Terberger (born 1 June 1967) on 25 September 2004. They have two children:
        Maximilian Ludwig Terberger (born 30 August 2005 in Bielefeld)
        Ottora Elisabeth Victoria Lucia Terberger (born 13 December 2007)
* Duchess Maria-Anna Henriette Gabrielle Julie in Bavaria (born 7 May 1975 in Munich). She married 8 September 2007 Klaus Runow (born 3 July 1964), an investment banker. They have one son:
        Heinrich Maria Leopold Maximilian Runow (born 3 May 2010 in Munich)


Marie Caroline on the left with her husband duke Philipp von Württemberg and Anna on the left.


duchess Hélène in Bayern (red hat) and princess Sophie of Liechtenstein, with her husband Alois.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 05:54:07 AM by PeDe » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 05:42:09 AM »


Sophie in Bayern


Sophie, Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein (German: Sophie, Hereditary Princess von und zu Liechtenstein, née Duchess Sophie in Bavaria, Princess of Bavaria; born 28 October 1967 in Munich), is the wife of Alois, Hereditary Prince of Liechtenstein, Regent of Liechtenstein and heir apparent to the Liechtensteiner throne.

Hereditary Princess Sophie was born in Munich on 28 October 1967 as the eldest of the five daughters of Prince Max, Duke in Bavaria, and Swedish Countess Elisabeth Douglas. Through her father, she is a direct descendant of the last King of Bavaria, Ludwig III (1845-1921), who was her great-great-grandfather.[1]

Sophie spent her childhood together with her parents and sisters in Wildbad Kreuth. From 1978 to 1980, Sophie attended the Girls' Home Primary School of the English Lady in Heiligenstadt. She then moved to the Girls' Secondary Boarding School Hohenburg in Lenggries. Sophie then studied English language and literature at the Catholic University in Eichstätt.








Thronprätendentin the Jacobites

Hereditary Princess Sophie is a descendant of the Stuarts. Therefore,  the Jacobites consider her a future heir to the British throne. If she survives her uncle Franz of Bavaria and her father Max, she will be regarded as the holder of the British throne, and referred to by them as Sophia I, Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Ireland and France. It is expected, however, that she will never claim this title. Her position as the heir of the House of Stuart will pass to her eldest son Joseph Wenzel.


Sophie married Hereditary Prince Alois of Liechtenstein on 3 July 1993 at St.Florin's in Vaduz, Liechtenstein.
They have four children:
* Prince Joseph Wenzel Maximilian Maria of Liechtenstein (born 24 May 1995 in London)
* Princess Marie-Caroline Elisabeth Immaculata of Liechtenstein (born 17 October 1996 in Grabs, Canton of St. Gallen)
* Prince Georg Antonius Constantin Maria of Liechtenstein (born 20 April 1999 in Grabs)
* Prince Nikolaus Sebastian Alexander Maria of Liechtenstein, Count of Rietberg (born 6 December 2000, in Grabs)

The wife of the Prince of Liechtenstein is different from the House bill honorific. Her Royal Highness (HRH) is used because she comes from the formerly ruling royal house of Wittelsbach (king of Bavaria, 1806-1918) and therefore stands in higher rank on record.
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 05:42:40 AM »

Elisabeth in Bayern

Duchess Elisabeth Marie Christine Franziska in Bavaria (born 4 October 1973 in Munich). She married Daniel Terberger (born 1 June 1967) on 25 September 2004.
They have two children:
* Maximilian Ludwig Terberger (born 30 August 2005 in Bielefeld)
* Ottora Elisabeth Victoria Lucia Terberger (born 13 December 2007)


Elisabeth
- Textile Consultant in her husband's company
- Ambassador for German history abroad
- patroness of DSMG Bavaria (German Society for Multiple Sclerosis)

Daniel Terberger
CEO and owner of Europe's largest fashion retail service KATAG http://www.katag.net/de/index/




 

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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 05:49:52 AM »


Elizabeth Duchess in Bavaria Kate and William - Interview: "Masterful change of roles"

Heidi Hagen-Pekdemir spoke to Duchess Elizabeth in Bavaria.
Today a dream wedding, tomorrow married life as a princess. How will Kate Middleton manage the role change to HRH?  Do you know Kate, William and other members of the royal family personally?

ELIZABETH DUCHESS IN BAVARIA
I met the parents of William during their visit in 1987 in Munich. For me, a very impressive meeting.



Heidi Hagen-Pekdemir
Can you empathize how the bride may have felt that day?

ELIZABETH DUCHESS IN BAVARIA
I think everyone can sympathize that. Kate has a great advantage. For her the train is already in motion, she is not the "driver" and does not need to push yourself. The screenplay is written. William and they are the most important passengers.



Heidi Hagen-Pekdemir
Does the role of a prince or a princess correlates with the sense of life of young people?

ELIZABETH DUCHESS IN BAVARIA
It may connect to their function as role models and also the desire for a perfect world. It is conceivable that young people these days who want their wedding to be like a Royal wedding - albeit in a smaller circle. In the eyes of many people, the British monarchy is the ultimate monarchy. And such a celebration occurs once every 30 years.



Heidi Hagen-Pekdemir
Will Kate accomplish the role change easily?

ELIZABETH DUCHESS IN BAVARIA
I start from the premise that she will. After all, she has spent seven years as a partner at his side. She will receive every assistance possible from the royal family. One wants to avoid a second case, Diana.



Heidi Hagen-Pekdemir
What will Kate have to forego in the future, or what they will probably miss the most?

ELIZABETH DUCHESS IN BAVARIA
She will have to give up the joy of anonymity. Each and every of their steps is observed, commented on or criticized. That can be very forceful at times: she is too thin, too thick or too fashionable times. It can be very burdening. A meeting with her sister or her friends to Fish and chips in the middle of London's impossible now.



Heidi Hagen-Pekdemir
How strong Kate is able to influence the education of their children?

ELIZABETH DUCHESS IN BAVARIA
She will be able to take influence on the education of her children, and also on actions of the court. At Diana's time the courtiers had the authorities of this influence. I think the British monarchy has loosened a bit. My view is, that she will be able to raise their children very freely.



Heidi Hagen-Pekdemir
Is your stay in New York directly connected with the wedding in London?

ELIZABETH DUCHESS IN BAVARIA
Yesterday evening, I represented Prince Edward, Williams uncle, at a meeting of the Versailles Foundation. It is a society that is committed to the maintenance of the Paris castle. Because the prince celebrates wedding, I gave the speech. My subject: The kings Louis I and Louis II of Bavaria, my ancestors.
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 05:55:36 AM »

I will be seeing those gums in my sleep.
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Ain't nobody got time for Mary's sh*t.
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2013, 05:57:20 AM »


Tamara Dutchess of Nayhauß interviewed Elisabeth for the ZDF boulevard magazine "Hello Deutschland" in her home and accompanied her for a day

Video here > > > http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmedi...sabeth-Herzogin-in-Bayern










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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2013, 07:58:52 AM »

What does the title in Bayern mean? Well I know what it means in German - I don't know what it means as a title. All the German prepositions in titles seem to get translated to of which obscures the distinctions  Crazy Crazy Crazy

Do all the German 'nobles' work in TV and make programmes about each other?  Blink
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"You only have it if you've got it." - James, Marquis of Mallow
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 08:17:42 AM »

What does the title in Bayern mean? Well I know what it means in German - I don't know what it means as a title. All the German prepositions in titles seem to get translated to of which obscures the distinctions  Crazy Crazy Crazy

Do all the German 'nobles' work in TV and make programmes about each other?  Blink



In Germany and Austria, "in" or "von or zu" generally precedes the surname of a noble family, with a meaning identical to "de" in French or Spanish. I believe it's an older form of "von" = "von Bayern" = "of Bavaria"

I don't know about all "von und zu Arschlochs", but in this case I guess only a deposed could report about another deposed  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 08:53:44 AM »

 Star as usual fantastic and interesting,
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2013, 02:35:31 PM »

 Smiley Wow -what a family history.

Thanks for the history lessons.

Did all the heads of royal houses make a deal with the German government after the the first war thatthe royal families gets to keep titles and property?
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2013, 04:41:24 PM »

Smiley Wow -what a family history.

Thanks for the history lessons.

Did all the heads of royal houses make a deal with the German government after the the first war thatthe royal families gets to keep titles and property?

They didn't make a deal. A law was set into force after the first world war that they loose their titles and the rights that have been included. The titles became part of the name. So a duke became Mr. of ".....".
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2013, 06:10:58 PM »

 Smiley Thanks, living in the U.S. with a history of 250 years, it always amazes me to read history of family's that go back to the holy roman emperor era.   The U.S. has such a short history as a country compare to the rest of  Europe.

Some of these family's have been around for along time, no wonder they house rules on marriages.

 Grin
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 07:22:00 PM »

Smiley Wow -what a family history.

Thanks for the history lessons.

Did all the heads of royal houses make a deal with the German government after the the first war thatthe royal families gets to keep titles and property?


you're most welcome Bennyluv.

No, there wasn't a deal per se. In Gemrany nobility was officially abolished in 1919, with the proclamation of the Weimar Republic (1919-1933).

Though the nobles are still a part of German society today, officially! they no longer retain any specific privileges. They lost their some of their castles, which went to the State, but kept sort of a patronage over them. Also, they had to give up some land, but took previsions to keep the majority of it. Their titles transformed into their last names. Same goes for Austria.

Just a recent example: Imre Habsburg-Lorraine ~ Archduke Imre of Austria. Imre officially only can use the House name as last name. But in noble (deposed)/royal circles he is still referred to as Imre, Archduke of Austria.

Or with the Bavarian family here: Franz, Duke of Bavaria. Franz's surname at birth was "of Bavaria". Later on he changed his surname to "Duke of Bavaria". His first name stayed Franz - his last name is Duke of Bavaria.

Stupid, isn't it?!
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2013, 12:16:18 AM »

Smiley Wow -what a family history.

Thanks for the history lessons.

Did all the heads of royal houses make a deal with the German government after the the first war thatthe royal families gets to keep titles and property?


you're most welcome Bennyluv.

No, there wasn't a deal per se. In Gemrany nobility was officially abolished in 1919, with the proclamation of the Weimar Republic (1919-1933).

Though the nobles are still a part of German society today, officially! they no longer retain any specific privileges. They lost their some of their castles, which went to the State, but kept sort of a patronage over them. Also, they had to give up some land, but took previsions to keep the majority of it. Their titles transformed into their last names. Same goes for Austria.

Just a recent example: Imre Habsburg-Lorraine ~ Archduke Imre of Austria. Imre officially only can use the House name as last name. But in noble (deposed)/royal circles he is still referred to as Imre, Archduke of Austria.

Or with the Bavarian family here: Franz, Duke of Bavaria. Franz's surname at birth was "of Bavaria". Later on he changed his surname to "Duke of Bavaria". His first name stayed Franz - his last name is Duke of Bavaria.

Stupid, isn't it?!


Yes, stupid - but the set up of names and use of titles after the war is interesting to me.

I often wonder what the deposed royal houses think of the current royal houses and all the scandals and lack of a suitable royal marriages in today society.   The deposed royal houses probably are glad they can avoid all the media circus surrounding them and their family.

 Wink
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