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Author Topic: New Hapsburg Niblets?????  (Read 507572 times)
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Alexia
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« Reply #3075 on: March 10, 2017, 11:11:18 PM »

I miss you Imre and Katie😢
WHERE ARE YOU?
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Alexia
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« Reply #3076 on: April 11, 2017, 02:52:34 PM »

No sign of life ?
I' m yearning....😢
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« Reply #3077 on: May 01, 2017, 06:20:30 PM »

Look who came out of hiding!

Imre and Kathleen attended a conference called "Catholicism in our modern world" at the Ritz-Carlton in Vienna, and Imre held a speech on his great-grandparents Emperor Karl and Empress Zita.

More pictures here: https://www.facebook.com/...album_id=1462099947186681







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« Reply #3078 on: May 01, 2017, 07:03:30 PM »

Yea! So glad to hear this news, and I'm glad Imre is taking up the mantle of communicator of family history.
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« Reply #3079 on: May 01, 2017, 08:01:54 PM »

They live!  I was beginning to wonder where they've been. 

I see that Imre is the latest Habsburg on the "make my dead ancestors a saint" world tour.  Usually it's his father, uncle Rudolph and Rudolph's sons who are the ones on the speaking circuit.

Katie's hair looks good at that length.  I also like how she had the good humor to stand next to someone wearing the same dress.   Thumb up
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« Reply #3080 on: May 01, 2017, 11:23:44 PM »

.....held a speech on his great-grandparents Emperor Karl and Empress Zita.


gawwwwwd....this is really annoying.....some saint...I really hope they don't make him one.


"On 3 October 2004, he was beatified by Pope John Paul II. The Pope also declared 21 October, the date of Charles' marriage in 1911 to Princess Zita, as Charles' feast day. The beatification has caused controversy because Charles authorized the Austro-Hungarian Army's use of poison gas during World War I."

"The Emperor refused to abdicate a throne that was a gift from God and an inheritance from his ancestors. Nevertheless, on November 11, 1918, he agreed to withdraw from the active exercise of power and to recognize the form of state which Austrians might choose in a national plebiscite."

"As Karl’s end approached, he placed himself with complete resignation into the hands of Our Lord. His eldest son and heir, Archduke Otto, was brought to the side of the deathbed so that as future head of the House of Habsburg he might learn, in Karl’s words, “how one behaves in such circumstances as a Catholic and as an Emperor.

Zita was once more pregnant. The Emperor had already prayed for each of his children by name: “Dear Jesus, protect our children. Protect their bodies and souls, take them away rather than they should commit a mortal sin. Finally, placing his hand over the womb of the Empress, he prayed especially for their unborn child, Archduchess Elizabeth."



So he gased people;
He refused to bow to the people's will;
and he wished death upon his children;

...yeah, nice one Karl, and now his great-grandson is tripping around the globe to ask for him to be made a saint.

Halo-crony's - niiiiice.
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« Reply #3081 on: May 02, 2017, 04:27:11 AM »

^^^

Basically, if they make this guy a saint, it's because of money and lobbying.  Doesn't sound very saintly to me.  How disgusting. 

Surely there are more suitable, actual saintly people they can canonize instead.  IMO, the very fact that this guy still lived as royalty, still used a title, etc, tells me that he was just another typical delusional elite.  If he wanted to be be saintly, he'd have renounced those things and lived as a monk and/or donated all his time and possessions to the poor. 
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« Reply #3082 on: May 02, 2017, 09:12:40 AM »

it's not by money and lobbying that someone is declared saint by the Catholic church.

i can't remind a single "newly proclaimed" saint who didn't deserve the honor of the altars.



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« Reply #3083 on: May 03, 2017, 05:36:23 AM »

it's not by money and lobbying that someone is declared saint by the Catholic church.

i can't remind a single "newly proclaimed" saint who didn't deserve the honor of the altars.





What has he done that is saintly?
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« Reply #3084 on: May 03, 2017, 09:07:58 AM »

According to the English language wikipedia about Karl:

Catholic Church leaders have praised Charles for putting his Christian faith first in making political decisions, and for his role as a peacemaker during the war, especially after 1917. They have considered that his brief rule expressed Roman Catholic social teaching, and that he created a social legal framework that in part still survives.

Pope John Paul II declared Charles "Blessed" in a beatification ceremony held on 3 October 2004,[28] and stated:

The decisive task of Christians consists in seeking, recognizing and following God's will in all things. The Christian statesman, Charles of Austria, confronted this challenge every day. To his eyes, war appeared as "something appalling". Amid the tumult of the First World War, he strove to promote the peace initiative of my Predecessor, Benedict XV.[29]

From the beginning, the Emperor Charles conceived of his office as a holy service to his people. His chief concern was to follow the Christian vocation to holiness also in his political actions. For this reason, his thoughts turned to social assistance.

The cause or campaign for his canonization began in 1949, when testimony of his holiness was collected in the Archdiocese of Vienna. In 1954, the cause was opened and he was declared "servant of God", the first step in the process. At the beginning of the cause for canonization in 1972 his tomb was opened and his body was discovered to be incorrupt.[30]

The League of Prayers established for the promotion of his cause has set up a website,[31] and Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of Vienna has sponsored the cause.

Recent milestones
On 14 April 2003, the Vatican's Congregation for the Causes of Saints in the presence of Pope John Paul II, promulgated Charles of Austria's "heroic virtues," and he thereby acquired the title of venerable.
On 21 December 2003, the Congregation certified, on the basis of three expert medical opinions, that a miracle in 1960 occurred through the intercession of Charles. The miracle attributed to Charles was the scientifically inexplicable healing of a Brazilian nun with debilitating varicose veins; she was able to get out of bed after she prayed for his beatification.
On 3 October 2004, he was beatified by Pope John Paul II. The Pope also declared 21 October, the date of Charles' marriage in 1911 to Princess Zita, as Charles' feast day. The beatification has caused controversy because Charles authorized the Austro-Hungarian Army's use of poison gas during World War I.[32][33]
On 31 January 2008, a Church tribunal, after a 16-month investigation, formally recognized a second miracle attributed to Charles I (required for his canonization as a saint in the Catholic Church); in an uncommon twist, the Florida woman claiming the miracle cure was not Catholic, but Baptist. However, due to her experiences, she converted to Catholicism soon thereafter.[34][35]
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« Reply #3085 on: May 03, 2017, 02:50:41 PM »

it's not by money and lobbying that someone is declared saint by the Catholic church.

i can't remind a single "newly proclaimed" saint who didn't deserve the honor of the altars.





What has he done that is saintly?


Historians argue the emperor's claims to Christian grace are undermined by the perceptions that he was a consummate liar, that he presided over the use of poison gas by his troops and that his chaotic leadership contributed to a fiasco when hundreds of thousands of his soldiers were taken prisoner in the war's last days.

Some historians smell a political agenda behind the campaign to make a hero of one of the least impressive Habsburgs. They note that the Pope has beatified no less than 1,315 contenders for sainthood, vastly more than any of his predecessors, and that the Polish pontiff, with his intense interest in central Europe, is seeking to revive an Austrian church with a history of combative political activism, which in the 1930s degenerated into "clerico-fascism".

If the church is now celebrating Charles's religious record, the last emperor's political career was singularly undistinguished.

"He was a dilettante, far too weak for the challenges facing him. Out of his depth, not really a politician. I don't know why he is being beatified," said Helmut Rumpler, a history professor who heads the Habsburg commission of the Austrian Academy of Sciences.

When Charles came to the throne in 1916 on the death of Emperor Franz Josef, amid war and with the Austro-Hungarian empire in its death throes, he was greeted with contempt.

His chief of staff complained: "He can't even write properly." One of his prime ministers quipped: "He is 30 years old, looks 20, and thinks like a 10-year-old."

As the empire collapsed at the end of the war, he fled to Switzerland, but refused to abdicate. He was then manipulated by rightwing Hungarian nationalists into staging two comic-opera attempts at reclaiming the throne in Budapest. The result: the British dumped him on Madeira where he died of pneumonia.


But the biggest controversy surrounding Charles is also the main reason the Vienna cardinal applauds him.

Through his French brother-in-law in 1917, Charles secretly sued for a separate peace with France, deserting his German ally. When news of the overture leaked, he strenuously denied all involvement. The furious French then published letters signed by him, infuriating the Germans and making him a laughing stock.

"He was a liar," says Brigitte Hamann, a Viennese historian. "He lied to everyone, the whole world."

The church maintains Charles was the sole wartime leader to follow the precepts of the Vatican and pursue peace.

Should he ever make the grade for canonisation, suggested the Austrian weekly Profil, he should be nominated as the patron saint of losers.



^^^ an excerpt that I agree with TOTALLY....I could not have said it better!!!!!!!!!!!

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« Reply #3086 on: May 03, 2017, 04:15:57 PM »

Money always bought priviledges with the church and this campaign is  Crazy. The BBC has a nice English article on "how to become a saint".
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27140646
So there must be verified miracles, something that can't be proved, so I guess you can buy the miracles if you have enough money and enough influence.
No idea if he can fulfil these criteria, I'm not familiar with his life.
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« Reply #3087 on: May 03, 2017, 04:23:15 PM »

They really need to find something else to do with their time. This constant push to rehab the family image, Charles & Zita, in particular is pathetic. I'm Catholic myself & it seems like their descendants are the only ones pushing for this & they have pushed hard. It's not legitimate to me.
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« Reply #3088 on: May 03, 2017, 10:24:40 PM »

it's not by money and lobbying that someone is declared saint by the Catholic church.

i can't remind a single "newly proclaimed" saint who didn't deserve the honor of the altars.






What has he done that is saintly?


Historians argue the emperor's claims to Christian grace are undermined by the perceptions that he was a consummate liar, that he presided over the use of poison gas by his troops and that his chaotic leadership contributed to a fiasco when hundreds of thousands of his soldiers were taken prisoner in the war's last days.

Some historians smell a political agenda behind the campaign to make a hero of one of the least impressive Habsburgs. They note that the Pope has beatified no less than 1,315 contenders for sainthood, vastly more than any of his predecessors, and that the Polish pontiff, with his intense interest in central Europe, is seeking to revive an Austrian church with a history of combative political activism, which in the 1930s degenerated into "clerico-fascism".

If the church is now celebrating Charles's religious record, the last emperor's political career was singularly undistinguished.

"He was a dilettante, far too weak for the challenges facing him. Out of his depth, not really a politician. I don't know why he is being beatified," said Helmut Rumpler, a history professor who heads the Habsburg commission of the Austrian Academy of Sciences.

When Charles came to the throne in 1916 on the death of Emperor Franz Josef, amid war and with the Austro-Hungarian empire in its death throes, he was greeted with contempt.

His chief of staff complained: "He can't even write properly." One of his prime ministers quipped: "He is 30 years old, looks 20, and thinks like a 10-year-old."

As the empire collapsed at the end of the war, he fled to Switzerland, but refused to abdicate. He was then manipulated by rightwing Hungarian nationalists into staging two comic-opera attempts at reclaiming the throne in Budapest. The result: the British dumped him on Madeira where he died of pneumonia.


But the biggest controversy surrounding Charles is also the main reason the Vienna cardinal applauds him.

Through his French brother-in-law in 1917, Charles secretly sued for a separate peace with France, deserting his German ally. When news of the overture leaked, he strenuously denied all involvement. The furious French then published letters signed by him, infuriating the Germans and making him a laughing stock.

"He was a liar," says Brigitte Hamann, a Viennese historian. "He lied to everyone, the whole world."

The church maintains Charles was the sole wartime leader to follow the precepts of the Vatican and pursue peace.

Should he ever make the grade for canonisation, suggested the Austrian weekly Profil, he should be nominated as the patron saint of losers.



^^^ an excerpt that I agree with TOTALLY....I could not have said it better!!!!!!!!!!!



 Star

Yep.  Just as I thought. 

Sorry, but the use of poison gas means he's little more than a war criminal. 

This is totally a political move on the part of his descendants.
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« Reply #3089 on: May 05, 2017, 03:26:08 AM »

Coming out of lurkdom...

There have been two miracles attributed to Karl I of Austria. One was a Brazilian nun in 1960 who couldn't get out of bed due to varicose veins. She prayed for his beatification and boom! She was able to get out of bed. The second one was a Florida woman who prayed to Karl to intercede on her behalf with her fight against breast cancer, even though she wasn't a Catholic. He's fulfilled the two criteria for sainthood. Since he was beatified in 2003 on the basis of the Brazilian nun in 1960, they only needed one more miracle for him to be considered a saint. The Pope could have waived that requirement and skipped to sainthood.

What I don't get is that the investigation of the nun's medical condition was conducted 40 years after it happened and considered to be inexplicable by medical standards. How do they know? It's so ridiculous that the Hapsburgs are campaigning for their ancestors to become saints. Do they think it'll make them especially holy and the best Catholics ever?
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