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Author Topic: A disabled heir  (Read 54917 times)
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luvcharles

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« Reply #90 on: September 24, 2019, 03:02:08 AM »

 Star
Philip Prospero, Prince of Asturias (1657-1661) was the son of King Philip IV of Spain and Marianna of Austria. He was heir apparent to the throne. He suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently.

Is your line 'he suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently' cut and pasted directly from Wikipedia ?

I know you love to get your post count up with random postings but I have to speak up in this case.  I have epilepsy and it is not considered a disability!!!
Are you usually this rude to posters Hanimefendi? I'm sorry you have epilepsy, but most certainly in Australia epilepsy can certainly be considered a disability

 Star
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luvcharles

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« Reply #91 on: September 24, 2019, 03:04:35 AM »

Philip Prospero, Prince of Asturias (1657-1661) was the son of King Philip IV of Spain and Marianna of Austria. He was heir apparent to the throne. He suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently.

Is your line 'he suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently' cut and pasted directly from Wikipedia ?

I know you love to get your post count up with random postings but I have to speak up in this case.  I have epilepsy and it is not considered a disability!!!
And I would rather advise you not to accuse people who are very valued board members with an impressive amount of rather informative historical posts of raking up a post count with random posts. This is insulting and derogatory and certain not called for.
As to epilepsy not being a disability: in many countries it certainly is considered such.
Disabilities are however nothing to be ashamed off and should not be considered a bad label.
And nobody has done any of this.



Well said Star

I too love reading many of Cyril's posts. They often get me doing more research into royals about whom I know very little and sometimes about those I have spent a lifetime studying or those I will be researching for my Ph.D starting next year.
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Margaret

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« Reply #92 on: September 24, 2019, 03:58:15 AM »

Philip Prospero, Prince of Asturias (1657-1661) was the son of King Philip IV of Spain and Marianna of Austria. He was heir apparent to the throne. He suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently.

Is your line 'he suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently' cut and pasted directly from Wikipedia ?

I know you love to get your post count up with random postings but I have to speak up in this case.  I have epilepsy and it is not considered a disability!!!
And I would rather advise you not to accuse people who are very valued board members with an impressive amount of rather informative historical posts of raking up a post count with random posts. This is insulting and derogatory and certain not called for.
As to epilepsy not being a disability: in many countries it certainly is considered such.
Disabilities are however nothing to be ashamed off and should not be considered a bad label.
And nobody has done any of this.



Well said Star

I too love reading many of Cyril's posts. They often get me doing more research into royals about whom I know very little and sometimes about those I have spent a lifetime studying or those I will be researching for my Ph.D starting next year.

I, too, enjoy reading Cyril's posts, and looking at the images that accompany them.  These posts often introduce me to royals I knew nothing about, or get me thinking more about those I do know about.  An old photograph can bring a long gone royal to life in a way that no amount of text can achieve.  Till now I had no idea about Philip Prospero and his short, sad life.  Researching him has led to me acquiring knowledge about the 17th Century Spanish RF and an interest in the circumstances that I otherwise would not have had.  Keep posting please, Cyril!

And hugs to Jonathan and all other posters for whom epilepsy or similar challenges are a part of life.
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karma chamelion

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« Reply #93 on: September 24, 2019, 04:27:37 AM »

Philip Prospero, Prince of Asturias (1657-1661) was the son of King Philip IV of Spain and Marianna of Austria. He was heir apparent to the throne. He suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently.

Is your line 'he suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently' cut and pasted directly from Wikipedia ?

I know you love to get your post count up with random postings but I have to speak up in this case.  I have epilepsy and it is not considered a disability!!!
And I would rather advise you not to accuse people who are very valued board members with an impressive amount of rather informative historical posts of raking up a post count with random posts. This is insulting and derogatory and certain not called for.
As to epilepsy not being a disability: in many countries it certainly is considered such.
Disabilities are however nothing to be ashamed off and should not be considered a bad label.
And nobody has done any of this.



Well said Star

I too love reading many of Cyril's posts. They often get me doing more research into royals about whom I know very little and sometimes about those I have spent a lifetime studying or those I will be researching for my Ph.D starting next year.

I, too, enjoy reading Cyril's posts, and looking at the images that accompany them.  These posts often introduce me to royals I knew nothing about, or get me thinking more about those I do know about.  An old photograph can bring a long gone royal to life in a way that no amount of text can achieve.  Till now I had no idea about Philip Prospero and his short, sad life.  Researching him has led to me acquiring knowledge about the 17th Century Spanish RF and an interest in the circumstances that I otherwise would not have had.  Keep posting please, Cyril!

And hugs to Jonathan and all other posters for whom epilepsy or similar challenges are a part of life.

Me as well, I've gone down quite a few very enjoyable rabbit holes thanks to CS. Jonathan, I always enjoy your posts as well Hug
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Maria
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« Reply #94 on: September 26, 2019, 07:49:30 PM »

Philip Prospero, Prince of Asturias (1657-1661) was the son of King Philip IV of Spain and Marianna of Austria. He was heir apparent to the throne. He suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently.

Is your line 'he suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently' cut and pasted directly from Wikipedia ?

I know you love to get your post count up with random postings but I have to speak up in this case.  I have epilepsy and it is not considered a disability!!!

Don't attack other posters simply because you disagree with them. That's not cool, here or elsewhere.
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Curtains

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« Reply #95 on: September 29, 2019, 01:18:57 AM »

Philip Prospero, Prince of Asturias (1657-1661) was the son of King Philip IV of Spain and Marianna of Austria. He was heir apparent to the throne. He suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently.

Cyril, thanks as always for calling attention to some amazing bits and bobs of information we would never otherwise think to look into.  Rock on my friend!   Star
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CyrilSebastian

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« Reply #96 on: September 29, 2019, 02:47:16 AM »

Philip Prospero, Prince of Asturias (1657-1661) was the son of King Philip IV of Spain and Marianna of Austria. He was heir apparent to the throne. He suffered from epilepsy and became ill frequently.

Cyril, thanks as always for calling attention to some amazing bits and bobs of information we would never otherwise think to look into.  Rock on my friend!   Star
     
 
Curtains, Thank you for the kind words!  Yes Yes Yes
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lynaH

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« Reply #97 on: April 30, 2020, 06:31:56 PM »

I was just reading this thread and noticed no one brought up Infante Jaime, the second son of Alfonso XIII. When an operation made him deaf he was forced to renounce his rights to the Spanish throne. (I say forced because he seemed rather eager to take up the mantle of French Pretender)
It's especially interesting to me because his older brother had haemophilia but was only removed from succession  when her married a commoner.

It seems to me that while a heir could be removed from the line of succession for disability it would have to be one that both could not be hidden (haemophilia was not considered a problem by any of the monarchies whose heir had it) and strong enough to prevent him from exercising his duties properly( a deaf king would have great difficulty communicating, especially pre sign language.

Most importantly, for a heir to be removed, he had to have a younger brother. Otherwise, they made do.

Also that while a heir couldn't be removed for a disability he could be strongly encouraged to renounce his rights.
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fairy

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« Reply #98 on: May 02, 2020, 09:43:29 PM »

I was just reading this thread and noticed no one brought up Infante Jaime, the second son of Alfonso XIII. When an operation made him deaf he was forced to renounce his rights to the Spanish throne. (I say forced because he seemed rather eager to take up the mantle of French Pretender)
It's especially interesting to me because his older brother had haemophilia but was only removed from succession  when her married a commoner.

It seems to me that while a heir could be removed from the line of succession for disability it would have to be one that both could not be hidden (haemophilia was not considered a problem by any of the monarchies whose heir had it) and strong enough to prevent him from exercising his duties properly( a deaf king would have great difficulty communicating, especially pre sign language.

Most importantly, for a heir to be removed, he had to have a younger brother. Otherwise, they made do.

Also that while a heir couldn't be removed for a disability he could be strongly encouraged to renounce his rights.

I don't quite understand what you mean by "pre-sign language"? Signed languages have been around almost since forever.
But I think the concept of genetically transported diseases was something that was a bit murky and most often ignored. Deafness however was glaringly obvious.
Though not accepted. Poor Alice of Greece formerly Battenberg had the worst time. Her mother was so angry about this (as if it was Alice fault) that she would forever forbid people to repeat something, that Alice did not catch, saying one should not encourage Alice to become lazy in her efforts to overcome her disability.
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lilyrose

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« Reply #99 on: December 28, 2020, 09:57:00 PM »

Surprised also that no one in this thread has brought up the children of Robert I, Duke of Parma. He had a whopping 24 legitimate children, 12 by his first wife, and 12 by his second wife. Three of his children made advantagenous marriages--the oldest daughter Marie Louise became Queen of Bulgaria; Felix became Prince Consort of Luxembourg, and Zita became Empress of Austria.

But Robert's two oldest sons, Henry and Joseph had "learning difficulties" that were apparently bad enough that third son Elias had to act as regent for both of them. Apparently only 3 of the children from Robert's first marriage were not disabled--Marie Louise, Elias and Beatrice. Three others died at birth or in infancy, and the other 6 (Luisa Maria, Henry, Maria Immacolata, Joseph, Maria Teresa and Maria Pia) apparently all had handicaps, but I've never been able to find out specifically what they were. I think one or two of the sisters were either deaf/mute or deaf/blind as well.
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Kristallinchen

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« Reply #100 on: December 28, 2020, 10:05:52 PM »

Surprised also that no one in this thread has brought up the children of Robert I, Duke of Parma. He had a whopping 24 legitimate children, 12 by his first wife, and 12 by his second wife. Three of his children made advantagenous marriages--the oldest daughter Marie Louise became Queen of Bulgaria; Felix became Prince Consort of Luxembourg, and Zita became Empress of Austria.

But Robert's two oldest sons, Henry and Joseph had "learning difficulties" that were apparently bad enough that third son Elias had to act as regent for both of them. Apparently only 3 of the children from Robert's first marriage were not disabled--Marie Louise, Elias and Beatrice. Three others died at birth or in infancy, and the other 6 (Luisa Maria, Henry, Maria Immacolata, Joseph, Maria Teresa and Maria Pia) apparently all had handicaps, but I've never been able to find out specifically what they were. I think one or two of the sisters were either deaf/mute or deaf/blind as well.

According to wikipedia Henriette (from the second marriage) was deaf.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 10:15:17 PM by Kristallinchen » Logged
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« Reply #101 on: December 29, 2020, 12:04:23 PM »

Surprised also that no one in this thread has brought up the children of Robert I, Duke of Parma. He had a whopping 24 legitimate children, 12 by his first wife, and 12 by his second wife. Three of his children made advantagenous marriages--the oldest daughter Marie Louise became Queen of Bulgaria; Felix became Prince Consort of Luxembourg, and Zita became Empress of Austria.

But Robert's two oldest sons, Henry and Joseph had "learning difficulties" that were apparently bad enough that third son Elias had to act as regent for both of them. Apparently only 3 of the children from Robert's first marriage were not disabled--Marie Louise, Elias and Beatrice. Three others died at birth or in infancy, and the other 6 (Luisa Maria, Henry, Maria Immacolata, Joseph, Maria Teresa and Maria Pia) apparently all had handicaps, but I've never been able to find out specifically what they were. I think one or two of the sisters were either deaf/mute or deaf/blind as well.


I didn't scan all items here, but I thought they were mentioned here.
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Principessa

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« Reply #102 on: December 29, 2020, 12:12:41 PM »

The ones I had to think about, almost immediately, where some of the children of Henri, Count of Paris, Duke of France (Prince Henri Philippe Pierre Marie d'Orléans)(14 June 1933 – 21 January 2019) and  Duchess Marie Thérèse of Württemberg (German: Marie Therese Nadejda Albertine Rosa Philippine Margarethe Christine Helene Josepha Martina Leopoldine Herzogin von Württemberg)(12 November 1934). Their eldest son and 2nd daughter:

Prince François, Count of Clermont (7 February 1961 - 30 December 2017), severely disabled from toxoplasmosis.
Princess Blanche d'Orléans (10 September 1962), severely disabled from toxoplasmosis.

Francois was the Dauphin of France in Orleanist reckoning. However, his mother had been infected with toxoplasmosis during her second and third pregnancies, and the pre-natal exposure left both Prince François and his younger sister, Princess Blanche, developmentally disabled.

François was about two or three months old, according to his father (then styled Count of Clermont as Orleanist heir-apparent), before the family realized that he had a disability. During his early childhood the family dwelt in Haute-Savoie, although his father was often away on military assignment or business. When he was 13, his parents separated and François spent weekdays in a facility at Beaumont-sur-Oise and, from the early 1980s, in a L'Arche community, rejoining his mother and siblings at the Orléans estate in Dreux on weekends, while sometimes vacationing with his paternal grandmother at the Chateau d'Eu where she taught him to walk when he was four or five. In 1981 his grandfather, the Count of Paris, having declared Clermont deprived of his dynastic rights for an unauthorized civil remarriage after divorce, publicly announced that he would be succeeded as claimant to the French throne by Prince Jean, younger brother of François, in light of the latter's incapacity. Although the Count subsequently relented and declared Clermont restored in his rights as the first-born son, when Clermont succeeded as Count of Paris in 1999, he reinstated François as the next heir on the grounds that his father's act had been ultra vires. He established a council of regency to exercise the dynastic prerogative on François's behalf, to become effective upon the succession of François as claimant. In 2016 Jean declared that his father's appointment of a regency council was invalid and, having become his elder brother's legal guardian, promised to continue to care for him while also called for François "to be left in peace and not used." On 31 December 2017 Prince Jean reported that after suffering a bad fall the previous day, François had died. Henri subsequently recognized Jean as "the Dauphin", father and son publicly embracing at the interment of François at the Chapelle royale de Dreux on 6 January 2018 following a funeral service attended by his parents, siblings and other members of family, as well as members of reigning and deposed dynasties.


Toxoplasmosis is a parasitic disease caused by Toxoplasma gondii.Infections with toxoplasmosis usually cause no obvious symptoms in adults.Occasionally, people may have a few weeks or months of mild, flu-like illness such as muscle aches and tender lymph nodes. In a small number of people, eye problems may develop. In those with a weak immune system, severe symptoms such as seizures and poor coordination may occur. If infected during pregnancy, a condition known as congenital toxoplasmosis may affect the child.


Sources: among others Wikipedia

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« Reply #103 on: December 29, 2020, 07:54:38 PM »

Interesting information Principessa.   All that useless argument over that poor young man. 

Whenever I see this topic come up I think of Alexandrine (1915-1980), the first daughter of Crown Prince Wilhelm of Germany.   She was born with Down's Syndrome.   It must have been a severe shock to the parents, as so little was known about the syndrome at that time.  Happily, she was not shut away in some awful "care home" but was a beloved member of the family. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/...russia_(1915%E2%80%931980)
       
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« Reply #104 on: December 29, 2020, 08:16:18 PM »

Interesting information Principessa.   All that useless argument over that poor young man.  

Whenever I see this topic come up I think of Alexandrine (1915-1980), the first daughter of Crown Prince Wilhelm of Germany.   She was born with Down's Syndrome.   It must have been a severe shock to the parents, as so little was known about the syndrome at that time.  Happily, she was not shut away in some awful "care home" but was a beloved member of the family.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/...russia_(1915%E2%80%931980)
        

Considering what Wilhelm II. had to endure himself in childhood, because he wasn't the perfect heathly heir, I think the Prussians were much more open to these things.

Just compare the haemophilic son's of Prince Heinrich and Irene with Aleksey of Russia or the Spanish Infantes.
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