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Kristallinchen

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« Reply #105 on: December 29, 2020, 08:23:17 PM »

The ones I had to think about, almost immediately, where some of the children of Henri, Count of Paris, Duke of France (Prince Henri Philippe Pierre Marie d'Orléans)(14 June 1933 – 21 January 2019) and  Duchess Marie Thérèse of Württemberg (German: Marie Therese Nadejda Albertine Rosa Philippine Margarethe Christine Helene Josepha Martina Leopoldine Herzogin von Württemberg)(12 November 1934). Their eldest son and 2nd daughter:

Prince François, Count of Clermont (7 February 1961 - 30 December 2017), severely disabled from toxoplasmosis.
Princess Blanche d'Orléans (10 September 1962), severely disabled from toxoplasmosis.

Francois was the Dauphin of France in Orleanist reckoning. However, his mother had been infected with toxoplasmosis during her second and third pregnancies, and the pre-natal exposure left both Prince François and his younger sister, Princess Blanche, developmentally disabled.

François was about two or three months old, according to his father (then styled Count of Clermont as Orleanist heir-apparent), before the family realized that he had a disability. During his early childhood the family dwelt in Haute-Savoie, although his father was often away on military assignment or business. When he was 13, his parents separated and François spent weekdays in a facility at Beaumont-sur-Oise and, from the early 1980s, in a L'Arche community, rejoining his mother and siblings at the Orléans estate in Dreux on weekends, while sometimes vacationing with his paternal grandmother at the Chateau d'Eu where she taught him to walk when he was four or five. In 1981 his grandfather, the Count of Paris, having declared Clermont deprived of his dynastic rights for an unauthorized civil remarriage after divorce, publicly announced that he would be succeeded as claimant to the French throne by Prince Jean, younger brother of François, in light of the latter's incapacity. Although the Count subsequently relented and declared Clermont restored in his rights as the first-born son, when Clermont succeeded as Count of Paris in 1999, he reinstated François as the next heir on the grounds that his father's act had been ultra vires. He established a council of regency to exercise the dynastic prerogative on François's behalf, to become effective upon the succession of François as claimant. In 2016 Jean declared that his father's appointment of a regency council was invalid and, having become his elder brother's legal guardian, promised to continue to care for him while also called for François "to be left in peace and not used." On 31 December 2017 Prince Jean reported that after suffering a bad fall the previous day, François had died. Henri subsequently recognized Jean as "the Dauphin", father and son publicly embracing at the interment of François at the Chapelle royale de Dreux on 6 January 2018 following a funeral service attended by his parents, siblings and other members of family, as well as members of reigning and deposed dynasties.


Toxoplasmosis is a parasitic disease caused by Toxoplasma gondii.Infections with toxoplasmosis usually cause no obvious symptoms in adults.Occasionally, people may have a few weeks or months of mild, flu-like illness such as muscle aches and tender lymph nodes. In a small number of people, eye problems may develop. In those with a weak immune system, severe symptoms such as seizures and poor coordination may occur. If infected during pregnancy, a condition known as congenital toxoplasmosis may affect the child.


Sources: among others Wikipedia



Well, nowadays the mother's blood is tested for toxoplasmososis at least two times. And you're advised not to stroke unknown dogs or cats.

I guess back in the 60ies that wasn't the norm.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 08:29:49 PM by Kristallinchen » Logged
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« Reply #106 on: January 03, 2021, 10:15:39 PM »

Interesting information Principessa.   All that useless argument over that poor young man. 

Whenever I see this topic come up I think of Alexandrine (1915-1980), the first daughter of Crown Prince Wilhelm of Germany.   She was born with Down's Syndrome.   It must have been a severe shock to the parents, as so little was known about the syndrome at that time.  Happily, she was not shut away in some awful "care home" but was a beloved member of the family. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/...russia_(1915%E2%80%931980)
       
Well she was a full and beloved member of the family, but what surprised me is that there are no pictures of her in later years. She lived till 1980 in Starnberg, yet there are no immediate google hits when you look up pictures of her...
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« Reply #107 on: January 04, 2021, 08:40:24 AM »

Interesting information Principessa.   All that useless argument over that poor young man. 

Whenever I see this topic come up I think of Alexandrine (1915-1980), the first daughter of Crown Prince Wilhelm of Germany.   She was born with Down's Syndrome.   It must have been a severe shock to the parents, as so little was known about the syndrome at that time.  Happily, she was not shut away in some awful "care home" but was a beloved member of the family. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/...russia_(1915%E2%80%931980)
       

In the case of Alexandrine I was very happy to see her being a beloved member of the family. Especially while in that time many (mental) disabled children were hidden and/or put away in an institute or such.





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« Reply #108 on: January 04, 2021, 08:52:17 AM »

Interesting information Principessa.   All that useless argument over that poor young man.  

Whenever I see this topic come up I think of Alexandrine (1915-1980), the first daughter of Crown Prince Wilhelm of Germany.   She was born with Down's Syndrome.   It must have been a severe shock to the parents, as so little was known about the syndrome at that time.  Happily, she was not shut away in some awful "care home" but was a beloved member of the family.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/...russia_(1915%E2%80%931980)
        
Well she was a full and beloved member of the family, but what surprised me is that there are no pictures of her in later years. She lived till 1980 in Starnberg, yet there are no immediate google hits when you look up pictures of her...

Indeed....no pictures of her in later years. The following ones were the only ones I could find which are past childhood.

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« Reply #109 on: January 04, 2021, 09:09:11 AM »

Not an heir, but the disabled sister (and only sibling) of Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prince of Prussia (June 10, 1976) ( = current head of the Prussian branch of the princely House of Hohenzollern, the former ruling dynasty of the German Empire and of the Kingdom of Prussia):

Princess Cornelie-Cécile (January 30, 1978), born posthumously.  Her father, Louis Ferdinand Prinz von Preußen, died in an accident in July 1977. Cornelie-Cecile is developmentally delayed. She's single and has no children.
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Kristallinchen

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« Reply #110 on: January 04, 2021, 10:38:59 AM »

Interesting information Principessa.   All that useless argument over that poor young man.  

Whenever I see this topic come up I think of Alexandrine (1915-1980), the first daughter of Crown Prince Wilhelm of Germany.   She was born with Down's Syndrome.   It must have been a severe shock to the parents, as so little was known about the syndrome at that time.  Happily, she was not shut away in some awful "care home" but was a beloved member of the family.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/...russia_(1915%E2%80%931980)
        
Well she was a full and beloved member of the family, but what surprised me is that there are no pictures of her in later years. She lived till 1980 in Starnberg, yet there are no immediate google hits when you look up pictures of her...

Indeed....no pictures of her in later years. The following ones were the only ones I could find which are past childhood.



Luckily she was a princess and an important enough person, otherwise I don't want to think about it what might have happened to her in the 1940ies.

Princess Maria Karolina of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (1899-1941) was such a tragic example. She was the daughter of Prince August and Archduchess Karoline (from the Tuscany line).

She was mentally disabled, interned by the Nazis and later on gased (in Hartheim in Austria) and cremated. Her mother (she died in 1945) afterwards received a condolence letter (how sick).

Appearantly Duke Charles Edward of SCG had tried to save her too, but sadly with no success.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 10:46:30 AM by Kristallinchen » Logged
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« Reply #111 on: January 04, 2021, 10:50:17 AM »


I am quite torn about this idea of "generally hidden away".
While I think that mental illnesses in some way have frightened people into shunning many of those poor patients, I also know from many accounts that as long as those suffering from mental or physical handicaps did not pose a threat to the family and/or village and did not take up too much time and effort to care for (there simply wasn't enough of both for the average family to spare for someone who could not attribute to the family's livelihood) they just lived with their families. In a time in which natal care was brutal and minimal at best, a lot more families had a member who suffered a mental or physical handicap either due to a botched birth, accidents/illnesses to the mother during pregnancy, ill-health/old age of the mother etc.
I remember some research during uni about this: and a quick check into my own family showed that we had up until medicine and prosperity kicked up a handicapped or challenged person in very generation - as did every other of my research partners.
Birthing 10 children in quick succession, often being pregnant every year simply is not really beneficial to a woman, even if she was the emporers wife or daughter and therefor at the top of the supply chain. Now imagine all the other countless women in far worse sanitary, health and work conditions...

What I think also helped Alexandrine was
A) she was lovely, she was pretty and apparently a sweet and lovable person, so that her siblings simply loved and adored her. Would it have been different with a different kind of mental illness? Also Down syndrome is not ONE fixed set of disabilities. it ranges from fairly mild to severe. From looking at the pictures I'd say Adini was not a severe case, but able to function fairly well.
B) All her siblings were extremely attractive, so the idea that the family might be tainted simply didn't come up. Not with such a bunch of hunks.
C) it was before Hitler brought up the idea that the German race should be purer than pure.
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« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2021, 12:00:52 PM »

Interesting information Principessa.   All that useless argument over that poor young man.  

Whenever I see this topic come up I think of Alexandrine (1915-1980), the first daughter of Crown Prince Wilhelm of Germany.   She was born with Down's Syndrome.   It must have been a severe shock to the parents, as so little was known about the syndrome at that time.  Happily, she was not shut away in some awful "care home" but was a beloved member of the family.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/...russia_(1915%E2%80%931980)
        
Well she was a full and beloved member of the family, but what surprised me is that there are no pictures of her in later years. She lived till 1980 in Starnberg, yet there are no immediate google hits when you look up pictures of her...

Indeed....no pictures of her in later years. The following ones were the only ones I could find which are past childhood.



Luckily she was a princess and an important enough person, otherwise I don't want to think about it what might have happened to her in the 1940ies.

Princess Maria Karolina of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (1899-1941) was such a tragic example. She was the daughter of Prince August and Archduchess Karoline (from the Tuscany line).

She was mentally disabled, interned by the Nazis and later on gased (in Hartheim in Austria) and cremated. Her mother (she died in 1945) afterwards received a condolence letter (how sick).

Appearantly Duke Charles Edward of SCG had tried to save her too, but sadly with no success.

According to the Wiki:

"..Maria Karoline (b. Pola, 10 January 1899 - d. Hartheim bei Linz, 6 June 1941). She had been living in an institution for the mentally disabled in Schladming, but was taken away and executed by gassing along with her fellow patients as a result of the Nazi eugenics policy, Action T4, in the concentration camp at Schloss Hartheim..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/...0at%20Schloss%20Hartheim.

Further more: https://royalcentral.co.u...ssed-by-the-nazis-126641/
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« Reply #113 on: January 04, 2021, 12:54:43 PM »

Not an heir, but the disabled sister (and only sibling) of Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prince of Prussia (June 10, 1976) ( = current head of the Prussian branch of the princely House of Hohenzollern, the former ruling dynasty of the German Empire and of the Kingdom of Prussia):

Princess Cornelie-Cécile (January 30, 1978), born posthumously.  Her father, Louis Ferdinand Prinz von Preußen, died in an accident in July 1977. Cornelie-Cecile is developmentally delayed. She's single and has no children.



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« Reply #114 on: January 04, 2021, 01:17:46 PM »

Haemophilia, a disease which can cause severe disability. Several royals & nobility, both heirs and non-heirs were affected by it:

"...Alexei Nikolaevich (Russian: Алексе́й Никола́евич) (12 August 1904 [O.S. 30 July] – 17 July 1918) of the House of Romanov, was the last Tsesarevich and heir apparent to the throne of the Russian Empire. He was the youngest child and only son of Emperor Nicholas II and Empress Alexandra Feodorovna. He was born with haemophilia, which his parents tried treating with the methods of faith healer Grigori Rasputin. Alexei inherited hemophilia from his mother Alexandra, a hereditary condition that affects males, which she had acquired through the line of her maternal grandmother Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom. It was known as the "Royal Disease" because so many descendants of the intermarried European royal families had it (or carried it, in the case of females.) In 2009 genetic analysis determined that Alexei had suffered from hemophilia B....."


"...Alfonso, Prince of Asturias (10 May 1907 – 6 September 1938), was heir apparent to the throne of Spain from birth until he renounced his rights in 1933. He was the eldest son of Alfonso XIII and his wife Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg.He died at the age of 31 as a result of a car accident. Alfonso's renunciation of his rights as heir to the throne of Spain in order to marry Cuban commoner Edelmira Sampedro caused controversy at the time. Though appearing to have sustained minor injuries, his haemophilia, inherited by him from his great-grandmother Queen Victoria, led to fatal internal bleeding...."

"..Infante Gonzalo of Spain (Gonzalo Manuel Maria Bernardo Narciso Alfonso Mauricio de Borbón y Battenberg) (24 October 1914 – 13 August 1934) was the fourth surviving son and youngest child of King Alfonso XIII of Spain and his wife Princess Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg. The infante was educated privately. Because he inherited hemophilia from his mother's family (a fact not widely known in Spain during his life), he suffered some ill health, although he was an active sportsman. In August 1934 Gonzalo was spending the summer holidays with his family at the villa of Count Ladislaus de Hoyos at Pörtschach am Wörthersee in Austria. On the evening of 11 August, Gonzalo and his sister Infanta Beatriz were driving from Klagenfurt to Pörtschach. Near Krumpendorf, Beatriz, who was driving, was forced to swerve to avoid a cyclist (the retired jockey Baron Neimans). The car crashed into a wall. Neither Gonzalo nor Beatriz appeared badly hurt, and so they returned to their villa. Several hours later it became clear that Gonzalo had severe abdominal bleeding. Because he had a weak heart, an operation was ruled out. He died two days later. He was the king and queen's second child to die...."

"...Lord Leopold Mountbatten GCVO (Leopold Arthur Louis; 21 May 1889 – 23 April 1922) was a British Army officer and a descendant of the Hessian princely Battenberg family and the British Royal Family.His father was Prince Henry of Battenberg, the son of Prince Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine and Julie Therese née Countess of Hauke. His mother was Princess Henry of Battenberg (née The Princess Beatrice), the fifth daughter and the youngest child of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. A grandson of Queen Victoria, he was known as Prince Leopold of Battenberg from his birth until 1917, when the British Royal Family relinquished their German titles during World War I, and the Battenberg family changed their name to Mountbatten.Leopold was a haemophiliac, a condition he inherited through his mother.Lord Leopold died on 23 April 1922 (aged 32), during a hip operation..."

"...Prince Maurice of Battenberg KCVO, (Maurice Victor Donald; 3 October 1891 – 27 October 1914) was a member of the Hessian princely Battenberg family and the extended British Royal Family, and the youngest grandchild of Queen Victoria. He was known as Prince Maurice of Battenberg throughout his life, since he died before the British Royal Family relinquished their German titles during World War I and the Battenbergs changed their name to Mountbatten.His father was Prince Henry of Battenberg, the son of Prince Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine and Julie Therese née Countess of Hauke. His mother was Princess Henry of Battenberg (née The Princess Beatrice of the United Kingdom), the fifth daughter and the youngest child of Queen Victoria and Albert, Prince Consort. The Prince served in World War I as a Lieutenant in the King's Royal Rifle Corps, and was killed in action at Zonnebeke,[5] in the Ypres Salient on 27 October 1914...."

"...Prince Waldemar William Louis Frederick Victor of Prussia (German: Waldemar Wilhelm Ludwig Friedrich Viktor Heinrich)(20 March 1889 – 2 May 1945) was the eldest son of Prince Henry of Prussia and his wife, Princess Irene of Hesse and by Rhine. Waldemar married Princess Calixta of Lippe-Biesterfeld (14 October 1895 – 15 December 1982) on 14 August 1919. They had no children. Waldemar, like his maternal first cousin, Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich of Russia; maternal uncle Prince Friedrich of Hesse and by Rhine; and youngest brother Heinrich, suffered from haemophilia. He died in a clinic in Tutzing, Bavaria because of the lack of blood transfusion facilities. He and his wife fled their home in light of the Russian advance, arriving in Tutzing, where Waldemar was able to receive his last blood transfusion.The U.S. Army overran the area the next day, on 1 May 1945, and diverted all medical resources to treat nearby concentration camp victims, preventing Waldemar's doctor from treating him. Waldemar died the following day, on 2 May..."

"..Prince Heinrich of Prussia (German: Heinrich Viktor Ludwig Friedrich)(9 January 1900 – 26 February 1904), was the haemophiliac third son and youngest child of Prince Henry of Prussia and Princess Irene of Hesse and by Rhine, and thus a grandson of Frederick III, German Emperor on his father's side and a great-grandson of Queen Victoria through both his mother and father. He died aged four. On 25 February, Princess Irene left Heinrich unsupervised for a few minutes while she went to fetch something. The playful Prince climbed a chair, and then he climbed onto the table. As he heard his mother approaching, he attempted to quickly come down but stumbled while attempting to climb down the chair and fell on the floor headfirst. He started to scream, which immediately attracted the Princess' attention. By the time she reached him, the child was almost unconscious. The doctor said the fall had not been that bad and the child would have survived had he not been a haemophiliac. However, suffering from this condition, it was certain the young Prince would die. He was suffering from a brain haemorrhage. He lingered for a couple of hours, but died the following day, on 26 February. He was four years old...."


"...Prince Friedrich of Hesse and by Rhine (Friedrich Wilhelm August Victor Leopold Ludwig)( 7 October 1870 – 29 May 1873) was the haemophiliac second son of Louis IV, Grand Duke of Hesse, and Princess Alice of the United Kingdom, one of the daughters of Queen Victoria.His haemophilia was first diagnosed in February 1873, a few months before his death, when he cut his ear and bled for three days. Bandages could not stanch the flow of blood. In late May 1873, Friedrich and his older brother Ernst were playing together in their mother's bedroom. Ernst ran to another room, which was set at right angles to Alice's bedroom and peered through the window at his younger brother. Alice ran to get Ernst away from the window. When she was out of the room, Friedrich climbed onto a chair next to an open window in his mother's bedroom to get a closer look at his brother. The chair tipped over and Friedrich tumbled through the window, falling twenty feet to the balustrade below. Friedrich survived the fall and might have lived had he not been a haemophiliac. He died hours later of a brain hemorrhage..."


"...Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany, KG, KT, GCSI, GCMG, GCStJ (Leopold George Duncan Albert)(7 April 1853 – 28 March 1884) was the eighth child and youngest son of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. Leopold was later created Duke of Albany, Earl of Clarence, and Baron Arklow. He had haemophilia, which led to his death at the age of 30. Leopold inherited the disease haemophilia from his mother, Queen Victoria, and was a delicate child. There was speculation during his life that Leopold also suffered mildly from epilepsy. Due to his haemophilia, he had difficulty finding a wife. On 27 April 1882 Leopold married Princess Helena of Waldeck and Pyrmont. Leopold and Helena enjoyed a happy (although brief) marriage. In 1883, Leopold became a father when his wife gave birth to a daughter, Alice. He died shortly before the birth of his son, Charles Edward...."


"...Rupert Alexander George Cambridge, Viscount Trematon (24 August 1907 – 15 April 1928) was an English-born great-grandson of Queen Victoria. Originally Prince Rupert of Teck, he and his family relinquished their German titles in 1917. As heir apparent to the Earldom of Athlone, he was known as Lord Trematon, but he died before he could inherit the title.His parents were Prince Alexander of Teck and the former Princess Alice of Albany, great-grandson and granddaughter of King George III and Queen Victoria respectively. Prince Rupert was a haemophiliac, a condition he shared with many descendants of Queen Victoria, including his maternal grandfather, Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany, who died because of it.Viscount Trematon died on 15 April 1928 from an intracerebral hemorrhage as a result of a car crash in France. His death, following the death of his baby brother Maurice in 1910, meant that the title of Earl of Athlone became extinct in 1957 when his father died...."




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« Reply #115 on: January 04, 2021, 08:41:34 PM »

Haemophilia, a disease which can cause severe disability. Several royals & nobility, both heirs and non-heirs were affected by it:


"...Lord Leopold Mountbatten GCVO (Leopold Arthur Louis; 21 May 1889 – 23 April 1922) was a British Army officer and a descendant of the Hessian princely Battenberg family and the British Royal Family.His father was Prince Henry of Battenberg, the son of Prince Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine and Julie Therese née Countess of Hauke. His mother was Princess Henry of Battenberg (née The Princess Beatrice), the fifth daughter and the youngest child of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. A grandson of Queen Victoria, he was known as Prince Leopold of Battenberg from his birth until 1917, when the British Royal Family relinquished their German titles during World War I, and the Battenberg family changed their name to Mountbatten.Leopold was a haemophiliac, a condition he inherited through his mother.Lord Leopold died on 23 April 1922 (aged 32), during a hip operation..."

"...Prince Maurice of Battenberg KCVO, (Maurice Victor Donald; 3 October 1891 – 27 October 1914) was a member of the Hessian princely Battenberg family and the extended British Royal Family, and the youngest grandchild of Queen Victoria. He was known as Prince Maurice of Battenberg throughout his life, since he died before the British Royal Family relinquished their German titles during World War I and the Battenbergs changed their name to Mountbatten.His father was Prince Henry of Battenberg, the son of Prince Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine and Julie Therese née Countess of Hauke. His mother was Princess Henry of Battenberg (née The Princess Beatrice of the United Kingdom), the fifth daughter and the youngest child of Queen Victoria and Albert, Prince Consort. The Prince served in World War I as a Lieutenant in the King's Royal Rifle Corps, and was killed in action at Zonnebeke,[5] in the Ypres Salient on 27 October 1914...."






Histories often mention Maurice as suffering from hemophilia, but I don't think there's a clear consensus on whether he did or not.  Maybe it was a very mild case (if there is such a thing).  I can't imagine he would have been allowed to serve in action, if he did suffer from hemophilia.   (His older brother Leopold was a staff officer during WWI.)   Leopold was very severely affected by hemophilia (particularly in the hips and joints, like Tsarvitch Alexis).   I've also seen it mentioned that Leopold died during an appendicitis operation, or a hip operation.             
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« Reply #116 on: January 04, 2021, 08:52:27 PM »


I am quite torn about this idea of "generally hidden away".
While I think that mental illnesses in some way have frightened people into shunning many of those poor patients, I also know from many accounts that as long as those suffering from mental or physical handicaps did not pose a threat to the family and/or village and did not take up too much time and effort to care for (there simply wasn't enough of both for the average family to spare for someone who could not attribute to the family's livelihood) they just lived with their families. In a time in which natal care was brutal and minimal at best, a lot more families had a member who suffered a mental or physical handicap either due to a botched birth, accidents/illnesses to the mother during pregnancy, ill-health/old age of the mother etc.
I remember some research during uni about this: and a quick check into my own family showed that we had up until medicine and prosperity kicked up a handicapped or challenged person in very generation - as did every other of my research partners.
Birthing 10 children in quick succession, often being pregnant every year simply is not really beneficial to a woman, even if she was the emporers wife or daughter and therefor at the top of the supply chain. Now imagine all the other countless women in far worse sanitary, health and work conditions...

What I think also helped Alexandrine was
A) she was lovely, she was pretty and apparently a sweet and lovable person, so that her siblings simply loved and adored her. Would it have been different with a different kind of mental illness? Also Down syndrome is not ONE fixed set of disabilities. it ranges from fairly mild to severe. From looking at the pictures I'd say Adini was not a severe case, but able to function fairly well.
B) All her siblings were extremely attractive, so the idea that the family might be tainted simply didn't come up. Not with such a bunch of hunks.
C) it was before Hitler brought up the idea that the German race should be purer than pure.


Also, I believe Alexandrine was kept at home, not a nursing home or a home for mentally disabled - this would have protected her during Hitler's cleansing programme, a little anyway.

I have a soft spot for her life story, as my cousin has Down's syndrome - he is the sweetest person, and almost self-sufficient, though he lives in an assisted living residence.  His birth was a big shock to my aunt and uncle, as she was only 32, so not exactly on the radar as someone who would have a Down's child, though we know now it can happen at any age.       
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