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Author Topic: Queen Victoria  (Read 47513 times)
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rosella
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« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2014, 09:37:48 AM »

Queen Victoria expected that her son and heir's first daughter would be named after her. When Bertie tactfully stated that Alexandra wanted to name her first daughter after her mother, Queen  Louise of Denmark, Victoria was miffed, but there wasn't much she could say!

Louise grew up artistic and unconventional by royal standards. She didn't want an arranged marriage and she made it clear that she wouldn't go to vegetate at some small German court. I think there was some doubt about Louise's fertility even in her teens, sparse periods perhaps. Victoria mentioned in a family letter before Louise's marriage that she might be barren, but didn't mention any cause.

Lorne was Louise's choice absolutely, it was regarded as a love match. He was an author and had artistic tastes too. They had a lot in common. As to whether Lorne was gay, the jury is really out on that one, as no proof has ever been found either way. The couple served in Canada as G.G. and consort in the 1870's and things seem to have cooled between them there though they reconciled years later and became close.
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« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2014, 10:32:25 AM »

You are mixing up two generations:
Louise was Victoria's daughter, not granddaughter and sister not child of Bertie. She was named after her fraternal grandmother Louise of Sachsen Gotha Altenburg (the unhappy mother of Prince Albert, consort to Victoria).
She was indeed artistic and a tad liberal in her personal ethics. In 1871 she married john Douglas Sutherland Campell, Marquis of Lorne, later Duke of Argyll. They remained childless and there were strong rumours that he was gay.

Bertie and Alexandra's first daughter Louise married Alexander Duff, Earl Fife (who was elevated to a Dukedom after the marriage), they had three children two daughters and a stillborn son.
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« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2014, 01:23:57 PM »

No, no, I was answering the question before, which seemed to infer that Bertie named his first daughter after his sister. He didn't she was named after Alexandra's mother, and as you point out, married Fife.

I then went on to post about Victoria's daughter Louise, who married the Marquis of Lorne (Bertie's sister, who was supposed to have had an illegitimate child, but didn't IMO.)

Sorry if it appeared muddled.
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« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2014, 05:42:52 PM »

Gotcha Hug
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« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2014, 05:56:06 PM »

Sorry, for my understanding what do you mean sith cliff note version?

It should be me who should apologize for using the word Cliff Notes.  Blush. It is essentially a study guide used in the US. It essentially means someone has done the hard work and read the book or books on a given topic and is producing a condensed version. Which is essentially what you are doing on Queen Victoria in this thread  Yes  . Human Wikepedia on Queen Victoria

Thank you very much for the detailed posts. I have learned a lot more than I started with without cracking a book. You have also made me more interested in reading about Queen Victoria, So thanks once again.

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« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2014, 06:08:42 PM »

Apologies for not naming people, but thank you to everyone who shared your knowledge about Queen Victoria. Much appreciated.
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« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2014, 10:40:45 PM »

Sorry, for my understanding what do you mean sith cliff note version?

You provided the condensed history of Victoria and her descendants. At college that would be a compliment.  Champagne

Cliffs Notes are student study guides for literature of all kinds. It can be a quick and easy way to avoid reading long literature assignments in preparation for a test. The guides were originally called Cliff's Notes and the name changed over time. If you go to any mass bookseller site (www.barnesandnoble.com) and type "cliffsnotes" in the search area you'll see how many of the small study guides are available.

Wikipedia also has a section on these study guides if you want to read more about them.

Thanks for the compliment  Smiley

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« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2014, 10:56:51 PM »

I guess the descendants of Queen Victoria can be found in various European Royal and Noble families. Also many weddings etc. between descendants.

In the past there was a nice documentary about Christian IX and his descendants (with interviews etc. with many royal and noble people). I would love a same sort documentary about Victoria.

Interesting Wikipedia site: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...hristian_IX#Grandchildren
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« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2014, 11:41:15 PM »

With regard to hemophilia:

1. Victoria, Princess Royal - none of her children showed signs of hemophilia. The second son of Vicky, prince Heinrich, had hemophilic sons, but which originated with their mother.

2. King Edward VII - none of his children (and descendants) showed signs of hemophilia.

3. Princess Alice -  she was carrier of the hemophilia gene.

Her third daughter Irene, married to prince Heinrich of Prussia (see above), transmitted the haemophilia gene to her elder and younger sons, Waldemar and Heinrich. Waldemar was married but had no children. Heinrich died at the age of four.

Alice's second son, prince Friedrich, was diagnosed with hemophilia. He died at the age of 2,5 years.

Her fourth daughter Alexandra (Alix), married to Tsar Nicholas II of Russia, transmitted the hemophilia gene to her youngest child and only son Alexei. A familiar and well known story. Perhaps her 4 daughters were carriers of the gene, but as they had no children we are not certain.

Alice's fifth daughter could be a carrier, but died of diphtheria at the age of 4.


4. Prince Alfred - none of his children showed signs of hemophilia.

5. Prncess Helene - not sure, her two youngest sons died in infancy or were still birth

6. Princess Louise - not sure, as she had no children.

7. Prince Arthur - none of his children and descendants show signs of hemophilia


8. Prince Leopold - had hemophilia and died at the age of 30.

His daughter princess Alice was carrier of the hemophilia gene


9. Princess Beatrice - she was carrier of the hemophilia gene

Her daughter Victoria Eugenie (Ena), who was married to king Alfonso XIII of Spain, was also carrier of the hemophilia gene. Her eldest and youngest son, resp. crownprince Alfonso and infante Gonzalo, suffered from hemophilia.

Beatrice's second son suffered from hemophilia at the age of 32.
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« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2014, 01:05:05 AM »

Some of this confusion about the Louises surfaced recently in the Daily Mail (how surprising).  They misquoted and misappropriated information about the two princesses in an article related to the publication of a biography on the Duchess of Argyll. 
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« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2014, 01:21:31 AM »

5. Prncess Helene - not sure, her two youngest sons died in infancy or were still birth


Her sons were not sufferers, but we'll never know if the daughters were carriers because one (Marie-Louise) married but didn't have children (the marriage was supposedly never consummated), and the other (Helena Victoria) never married.
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« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2014, 06:47:34 AM »

On Haemophilia,  there is a school of thought that Victoria couldn't be the legitimate daughter of Prince Edward, as there was previously no haemophilia in his family or her mothers.  That being the case she was not the legitimate Queen and all her descendents had no rights of inheritance to the british throne.


Its an interesting theory but not one that has any back up,  I think the common understanding is that the Haemophilia was a spontaneous mutation.  Its also unlikely that any man with the condition would have survived long enough to have been old enough to father Victoria (any man with the haemophilia gene will be haemophiliac as its carried in the X chromasome, whereas woman have  Xs from each parent and its a recessive gene so its less likely to manifest itself in a female. (I'm not a doctor so that may be totally wrong but its what we were taught at school to the best of my memory.)

If Victoria hadn't been crowned, the throne would have passed to another line of the family, ultimately meaning our current monarch would be Ernst of Hanover and his wife Caroline of Monaco..
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« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2014, 07:26:57 AM »

In a biography on Leopold I read recently it was stated that there MIGHT be an outside chance of haemophilia recurring through Queen Victoria's maternal line. Her maternal great-grandmother was a Countess of Stelberg and apparently in that line several descendants had many sons die when they were very young.

Of course, it can never be proven and in previous centuries children died of many diseases. Haemophilia wasn't even described until 1820. It was most likely a genetic mutation. The Duke of Kent was after all over fifty when Victoria was born and there is a higher risk of genetic damage with older fathers.

What I did find a bit startling was grandma Victoria's reaction to the discovery that her daughter Alice of Hesse's little boy Frederich ('Frittie') was a haemophiliac. It took Alice two years to find out what was wrong after his birth in 1870.

Queen Victoria wrote to her 'This peculiarity of poor little Fritz, like Leopold's which is such a rare thing and not in the family is most extraordinary'. She put it down to 'the state of anxiety and stress she (Alice) was in before and after he was born.' (The war against France in which Louis of Hesse took part, was what she meant) Victoria had either not been told what haemophilia was or had misunderstood.
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« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2014, 01:29:11 AM »

5. Prncess Helene - not sure, her two youngest sons died in infancy or were still birth


Her sons were not sufferers, but we'll never know if the daughters were carriers because one (Marie-Louise) married but didn't have children (the marriage was supposedly never consummated), and the other (Helena Victoria) never married.

You are correct  Thumb up  also one of the reason I mentioned it wasn´t sure  Wink Smiley
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« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2014, 01:33:01 AM »

On Haemophilia,  there is a school of thought that Victoria couldn't be the legitimate daughter of Prince Edward, as there was previously no haemophilia in his family or her mothers.  That being the case she was not the legitimate Queen and all her descendents had no rights of inheritance to the british throne.


Its an interesting theory but not one that has any back up,  I think the common understanding is that the Haemophilia was a spontaneous mutation.  Its also unlikely that any man with the condition would have survived long enough to have been old enough to father Victoria (any man with the haemophilia gene will be haemophiliac as its carried in the X chromasome, whereas woman have  Xs from each parent and its a recessive gene so its less likely to manifest itself in a female. (I'm not a doctor so that may be totally wrong but its what we were taught at school to the best of my memory.)

If Victoria hadn't been crowned, the throne would have passed to another line of the family, ultimately meaning our current monarch would be Ernst of Hanover and his wife Caroline of Monaco..


From what I have learned female can have hemophilia, but this is very, very rare.

But if in case of Ernst I guess his ancestors would face the same situation as the Windsor. A very anti-German climate during the wars (WWI & WWII) and perhaps also decided to remove or change their German titles (and properties).
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