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Author Topic: How do we get rid of them?  (Read 12944 times)
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Roman Patrician

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« on: April 17, 2015, 07:09:05 AM »

Calling all constitutional and legal experts:

Ok, so Australia will leave once the Queen passes but what is the process for the UK to become a republic? Can a referendum be called by the public if it lobbies Parliament enough? Must it be a MP who gets the ball rolling?

Let's play out what needs to happen for the Windsors to fall in a hypothetical world where 95% of Brits want them gone.

Thanks  Smiley
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luvcharles

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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2015, 07:14:51 AM »

First point - Australia may become a republic sometime after the passing of The Queen but that isn't a given. For that to happen we still have to pass a referendum and that isn't easy - 8 out of 44 since 1901 is not a high percentage.

I would imagine that in the UK there would have to be a groundswell of opinion calling for a republic - and that isn't there at the moment at all with even the Guardians polls showing support for the monarchy in the 70+% range. With that groundswell of support there would be a referendum - as there was last year in Scotland.
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rosella
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2015, 08:18:10 AM »

There is no groundswell of support for a republic in Australia either, in my opinion. It's on the back burner, haven't heard of it being discussed at functions I've been to for years. The last polls taken here showed that republicanism had lost ground if anything. Australians have plenty of other things to worry about.

 The last referendum on the question in Australia didn't even get a majority 'Yes' in any State, and, has been pointed out, it is extremely difficult to change Australia's Constitution. So don't count on an Australian Republic with the Queen's death.

In Britain, the only thing that would get debates in Parliament on this issue is if people were actually demonstrating in the streets on it, plus republican organisations with millions of members. At the moment Republic, the largest such organisation in Britain, boasts a whole 35,000 to 40,000 members, out of a population of some 63 million people. Hardly impressive, especially as some members aren't active.

 The polls since the 1990's have veered between 75% and 80% popularity for the monarchy, very little change. And these are polls conducted by reputable companies like YouGov. So I'd say there's a way to go before 95% of the British population want them gone, regardless of the majority views on this royal forum and others.
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freethespoon

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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2015, 09:40:51 AM »

There's no appetite in Australia for a republic at the moment.  Not because the royals are popular or useful but because there are other issues / concerns.  And the royals know how to keep their peasant fans happy with their periodic visits, baby production, and pretend concern for charities.

So long as they cost the rest of us little, who gives a sh*t.
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2015, 10:22:41 AM »

OK ignore my Australian republic comment, I'm well aware of our national priorities (and the monarchy is not one of them), as I was more interested in what steps would need to be taken to replace the monarchy with something a bit more democratic in the UK.

If more than a majority of the population was enthusiastically against having a monarch and wanted a change in the near future, what's the first step? Waiting for a MP to bring the issue to parliament or something else?
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luvcharles

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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 10:39:51 AM »

Yes - it would have to start with legislation in parliament for a referendum.

No MP would bring it at the moment when the current polls show support for the monarchy in the UK at around 75% and support for a republic at less than 20% with the rest undecided.

A bit of interesting facts for Australians - particularly those from NSW about the teaching of the republic as an issue in our history syllabus:

In 1999 there was a new History syllabus introduced and the Year 10 course had a mandatory topic on the 'republican debate'. The first group of Year 10 students to study that topic was the Year 10 class of 2000 who could remember the vote from November 1999. When the syllabus was originally written it was assumed amongst many History teachers in NSW that Australia would vote Yes and thus that that topic was one that people looked forward to teaching. When the next History syllabus in NSW came out in 2006 the Republican debate was made an optional topic - alternatives to the Republic included Gough Whitlam and the Dismissal or Pauline Hanson and One Nation (there were three or four other options but note that History teachers had to actually choose between the 1975 Dismissal and the Republic or could do neither of these options). The latest syllabus in NSW being taught to Year 10 for the first time this year has no mention of the republic as an issue. The syllabus mirrors the national curriculum History syllabus as well so the republic as an issue is no longer even being taught in Australian schools unless a teacher does it as the final topic where it isn't listed specifically as an option. Knowing how much influence History teachers have into writing the syllabus it seems that they don't even think it is worth teaching.
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rosella
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 10:47:28 AM »

OK ignore my Australian republic comment, I'm well aware of our national priorities (and the monarchy is not one of them), as I was more interested in what steps would need to be taken to replace the monarchy with something a bit more democratic in the UK.

If more than a majority of the population was enthusiastically against having a monarch and wanted a change in the near future, what's the first step? Waiting for a MP to bring the issue to parliament or something else?

As with my first post, the only way that British Parliament would debate this issue would be if a million or more people got out onto the streets in continuous protest over time, and/or millions of people joined organisations like Republic demanding change and bombarding their MPs constantly. A few dozen or even a few thousand people writing to their MPs isn't going to do anything, in my opinion. Why should it?

I'm an Australian but born in Britain. As I don't live there any more (though I visit frequently) I wouldn't feel, if I was a republican, that it was my business to interfere in the constitutional arrangements of another country whose citizens appear to be quite happy with the way things are.
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2015, 11:11:12 AM »

Yes, I'm sure many monarchists hope the republican movement dies out.

Thankfully, there are those of us who still believe in egalitarian societies where vagina lotteries mean nothing.  

Republicanism will never die.  Sorry. 
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rosella
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2015, 11:52:37 AM »

Yes, I'm sure many monarchists hope the republican movement dies out.

Thankfully, there are those of us who still believe in egalitarian societies where vagina lotteries mean nothing.  

Republicanism will never die.  Sorry. 

My personal views don't come into it. I was just explaining that republicanism in Britain is not likely to get anywhere unless people protest about it, get out on the streets or join organisations like Republic in large numbers. Like millions of people. Writing to your local MP won't do anything.






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Crawler

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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2015, 11:58:29 AM »

Yes, I'm sure many monarchists hope the republican movement dies out.

Thankfully, there are those of us who still believe in egalitarian societies where vagina lotteries mean nothing.  

Republicanism will never die.  Sorry.  

 Thumb up   Star  ITA

Monarchists always say how people want the Monarchy. IMO it is more about pageantry and role playing than whether they are an unnecessary expense and job.

The fact that someone is born to a certain family does not give them leadership abilities. History has shown that over and over again.
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freethespoon

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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2015, 12:00:17 PM »

Yes, I'm sure many monarchists hope the republican movement dies out.

Thankfully, there are those of us who still believe in egalitarian societies where vagina lotteries mean nothing.  

Republicanism will never die.  Sorry.  

My personal views don't come into it. I was just explaining that republicanism in Britain is not likely to get anywhere unless people protest about it, get out on the streets or join organisations like Republic in large numbers. Like millions of people. Writing to your local MP won't do anything.


I never spoke about your personal views.  I was just explaining my own views.  

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freethespoon

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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2015, 12:00:57 PM »

Yes, I'm sure many monarchists hope the republican movement dies out.

Thankfully, there are those of us who still believe in egalitarian societies where vagina lotteries mean nothing.  

Republicanism will never die.  Sorry.  

 Thumb up   Star  ITA

Monarchists always say how people want the Monarchy. IMO it is more about pageantry and role playing than whether they are an unnecessary expense and job.

The fact that someone is born to a certain family does not give them leadership abilities. History has shown that over and over again.

Amen.  I always thought eugenics died out with WWII and Hitler but here we are. 

 Star
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rosella
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2015, 12:10:12 PM »

Yes, I'm sure many monarchists hope the republican movement dies out.

Thankfully, there are those of us who still believe in egalitarian societies where vagina lotteries mean nothing.  

Republicanism will never die.  Sorry.  

 Thumb up   Star  ITA

Monarchists always say how people want the Monarchy. IMO it is more about pageantry and role playing than whether they are an unnecessary expense and job.

The fact that someone is born to a certain family does not give them leadership abilities. History has shown that over and over again.

Amen.  I always thought eugenics died out with WWII and Hitler but here we are. 

 Star

You are preaching to the converted here. As I said in my previous post, most posters on royal forums are republicans. Whatever you say on here isn't going to make for constitutional change in Britain, which is what I thought this thread was about. Get millions of people into groups like Republic. Change those poll numbers to 5% for a monarchy 95% republic. Get out on the streets with millions of friends and see what happens.

On a totally different subject I marched against the Iraq War. So did millions around the world. It made no difference. Politicians won't listen until they are made to.


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Roman Patrician

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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2015, 12:23:15 PM »

Yes, I'm sure many monarchists hope the republican movement dies out.

Thankfully, there are those of us who still believe in egalitarian societies where vagina lotteries mean nothing.  

Republicanism will never die.  Sorry.  

 Thumb up   Star  ITA

Monarchists always say how people want the Monarchy. IMO it is more about pageantry and role playing than whether they are an unnecessary expense and job.

The fact that someone is born to a certain family does not give them leadership abilities. History has shown that over and over again.

Amen.  I always thought eugenics died out with WWII and Hitler but here we are. 

 Star

You are preaching to the converted here. As I said in my previous post, most posters on royal forums are republicans. Whatever you say on here isn't going to make for constitutional change in Britain, which is what I thought this thread was about. Get millions of people into groups like Republic. Change those poll numbers to 5% for a monarchy 95% republic. Get out on the streets with millions of friends and see what happens.

On a totally different subject I marched against the Iraq War. So did millions around the world. It made no difference. Politicians won't listen until they are made to.


No, no, not at all. I simply was interested in the legal context in which a republic may come about in a monarchy like the UK. I certainly don't think that any Brits are going to storm the palace anytime soon.

Am I a republican, of course, but I didn't intend this thread to come off as a petition. I enjoy the posts from our resident legal experts on threads such as Andrew's debauchery or Infanta Cristina's participation in illegal activities, and wanted to read their opinions on this topic.

That's all. The moderator can delete this topic if necessary.
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2015, 02:04:07 PM »

I think it would take a crisis or scandal - oh wait, we have had plenty of those!
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