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Author Topic: Royal titles  (Read 20464 times)
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« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2016, 07:40:15 PM »

I think it was kinda normal back then. Foreign spouses had their names changed into the equivalent of their adoptive country. Like Henri de Monpezat becoming Prince Henrik.

Off topic, but I don't get why the name thing still happens today. Like, for instance, calling King Felipe King Philip or Charlotte Casiraghi Carlotta, etc. To me, that practice should be long gone and outdated in this globalised world of ours.
Totally agree on the translation of names, there's no need these days, but what really drives me nuts is most of the Spanish press does half and half, so William is "Guillermo" but George isn't Jorge. It's very odd.
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« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2016, 10:00:36 PM »

I think in earlier times this habit served to help the subjects to pronounce the new spouses' names, esp when the names would be very difficult for people to say. But it also solidified the fact that this new princess/queen (and for most parts it was women) was now a "native" and not a foreigner. (Eg the unpronounceable name of Dagmar was switched to Marie (using the last syllable only) in Russia).Didn't work very well, though.
I didn't know Claus' other first names had been changed into dutch as well, was that the case with Bernhard as well? I know that Prince Hendrick was likely a born Prince Heinrich.
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« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2016, 11:49:43 PM »

I think in earlier times this habit served to help the subjects to pronounce the new spouses' names, esp when the names would be very difficult for people to say. But it also solidified the fact that this new princess/queen (and for most parts it was women) was now a "native" and not a foreigner. (Eg the unpronounceable name of Dagmar was switched to Marie (using the last syllable only) in Russia).

Dagmar (born Marie Sophie Frederikke Dagmar) took the name Maria when she came into the orthodox church,  not because her name was not pronounceable.  I'm from eastern Europe originally and the form of Dagmar used in many languages there is Dagmara so it is not unknown.
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« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2016, 06:44:04 AM »

And then she became Marie/Maria Feodorovna.  Cute She's my favourite historic royal.
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« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2016, 09:40:32 AM »

I think it was kinda normal back then. Foreign spouses had their names changed into the equivalent of their adoptive country. Like Henri de Monpezat becoming Prince Henrik.

Off topic, but I don't get why the name thing still happens today. Like, for instance, calling King Felipe King Philip or Charlotte Casiraghi Carlotta, etc. To me, that practice should be long gone and outdated in this globalised world of ours.

If I am correct this has been discussed before very (very) shortly here on RD.
In some countries it seems almost a habit to translate the names of (foreign) royals into the version existing in their own language. As far as I can see it, it happens less than in the past, it decreased.

For example I have seen Willem-Alexander described as William-Alexander, Wilhelm-Alexander and Guillermo-Alejandro
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« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2016, 09:57:57 AM »

I think in earlier times this habit served to help the subjects to pronounce the new spouses' names, esp when the names would be very difficult for people to say. But it also solidified the fact that this new princess/queen (and for most parts it was women) was now a "native" and not a foreigner. (Eg the unpronounceable name of Dagmar was switched to Marie (using the last syllable only) in Russia).Didn't work very well, though.
I didn't know Claus' other first names had been changed into dutch as well, was that the case with Bernhard as well? I know that Prince Hendrick was likely a born Prince Heinrich.

Prince Hendrik, the spouse of Queen Wilhelmina, was indeed born as a prinz Heinrich:
Heinrich Wladimir Albrecht Ernst Herzog zu Mecklenburg = Hendrik Wladimir Albrecht Ernst
Hendrik is the general Dutch version of Heinrich.

Prince Bernhard, the spouse of Queen Juliana, had only part of his names changed. His first name stayed the same. As far as I know at least 2 versions of the name exist and or are used in Dutch: Bernard and Bernhard. But I guess the first version of Bernard is the most "Dutch" one.
Bernhard Friedrich Eberhard Leopold Julius Kurt Carl Gottfried Peter Graf von Biesterfeld = Bernhard Leopold Frederik Everhard Julius Coert Karel Godfried Pieter, Prins der Nederlanden, Prins van Lippe-Biesterfeld

It also seems his names were also a bit mixed up Smiley

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Philippe of Belgium was previously in the Netherlands predominantly known under the Dutch (or Flemish) version of his name Filip(s).


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« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2016, 10:34:34 AM »

I think in earlier times this habit served to help the subjects to pronounce the new spouses' names, esp when the names would be very difficult for people to say. But it also solidified the fact that this new princess/queen (and for most parts it was women) was now a "native" and not a foreigner.

I think that was the reason(s) as well and in those days, it made sense. Today, IMO, it just seems lazy.
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« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2019, 11:44:16 PM »

In 1804 Holy Roman Emperor Francis II created the title "Hereditary Emperor of Austria". He was His Imperial and Royal Apostolic Majesty, By the Grace of God, Emperor of Austria. He was also Apostolic King of Hungary and King of Bohemia.
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« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2019, 03:23:56 AM »

Prince Karl of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen was elected Ruling Prince of the Romanian United Principalities on April 20, 1866. He endeared himself to his adopted country by adopting the Romanian spelling of his name, Carol.
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« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2019, 02:24:30 AM »

In France, a king's son was called Fils de France, Son of France. The Dauphin of France was the title given to the heir apparent to the throne from 1350 to 1791 and 1824 to 1830.
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« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2019, 08:06:31 PM »

Proper nouns used to be translated into Spanish -- not only those of  royals (places : Londres, important people: Julio Verne and so on, but not politicians, although Stalin may be referred to as Jos). Nowadays names preceded by a title ( popes, royals, saints) are still translated  but less often (for instance, it  is  Paul Auster , Pierre Lemaitre, Andrea Camilleri ,etc). The moment she became William's wife, Katherine /Kate became Catalina. When Charlotte Cambridge was born, some papers mentioned this custom and one of them remarked that there was no translation for Charlene (El Heraldo, 4/5/2015). And yes,the Cambridge kids are George, Charlotte and Louis for the press. I feel Archie Harrison would follow Charlene's fate.   Smiley
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 08:14:36 PM by Lord Gn » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2019, 08:16:10 PM »

Harrison would be Enrquez but Archie... No
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« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2019, 03:52:12 AM »

In the Carilingian Empire the title Archduke was awarded not as a rank of nobility, but as a unique honorary title to the Duke of Lotharingia.
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