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Author Topic: Harry as the next POW?  (Read 33178 times)
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wisdomheaven

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« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2015, 09:01:43 PM »

I thought I made it clear, sorry if I didn't. The heir is The Prince of Wales and the children are Prince/Princess - of Wales. We have never had a Princess of Wales in her own right and I have never heard that it was considered that the Queen as a Princess was to be given this honour,

It is a tradition going back to Henry the 2nd, I think, and it has never changed. There has been some discussion about the title but George turned out to be George and not Enid......

Prince Charles does speak a little Welsh and he and Camilla have a fisherman cottage on the west coast in an almost purely Welsh speaking area.

If you want a real surprise Kate is the most fluent Welsh speaker in the royal family.

The Queen announced when Charles was 10 that he would be created POW. We don't have a constitution and this country lives by the rule of law and tradition. Traditions change but not that much in Wales.

Also Wales is the most republican of the union and the country have very few hereditary titles or public schools.

Really? I didn't know this. I know the further North you go, the less people care for the monarchy/there is a big North vs. South divide in the UK.

Is there any particular historical reason for the republican sentiment?
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Jonathan

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« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2015, 09:08:47 PM »

Funnily enough the only North/South divide is in the language.

There used to be Welsh Princes but as far as I am aware they were voted in or by battle. It never seemed to go father to son etc. Hence after the battle of the Wye valley the English king said that the next Prince of Wales would not speak a word of English and then presented his 9 month old son!

Historically the Welsh have never been that much interested in the English and the aristocracy/servants isn't part of our life.
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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2015, 09:18:23 PM »

Nothing to add but to say I think Welsh is beautiful spoken language.
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Jonathan

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« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2015, 10:26:35 PM »

Thank you. It's very musical. We speak it most of the time at home. All the time when we are on our own.
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divinemiss

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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2015, 10:36:27 PM »

I thought I made it clear, sorry if I didn't. The heir is The Prince of Wales and the children are Prince/Princess - of Wales. We have never had a Princess of Wales in her own right and I have never heard that it was considered that the Queen as a Princess was to be given this honour,

It is a tradition going back to Henry the 2nd, I think, and it has never changed. There has been some discussion about the title but George turned out to be George and not Enid......

Prince Charles does speak a little Welsh and he and Camilla have a fisherman cottage on the west coast in an almost purely Welsh speaking area.

If you want a real surprise Kate is the most fluent Welsh speaker in the royal family.

The Queen announced when Charles was 10 that he would be created POW. We don't have a constitution and this country lives by the rule of law and tradition. Traditions change but not that much in Wales.

Also Wales is the most republican of the union and the country have very few hereditary titles or public schools.

Really? I didn't know this. I know the further North you go, the less people care for the monarchy/there is a big North vs. South divide in the UK.

Is there any particular historical reason for the republican sentiment?

Not sure if I'm reading your question/comment correctly but yes, the further North in the UK you go the less the interest/support for the monarchy you will find. So to assume that the north of England/Scotland is more republican than the South of England is probably accurate however I believe that Jonathan is discussing this in a historical context.

Where England/Scotland have a long tradition of hereditary hierarchical systems of rule - with our own titles and aristocracy etc. Wales' history has less/not as ingrained system. Is that right? Or am I just reading everyone's posts wrongly tonight???
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Jonathan

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« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2015, 10:58:37 PM »

You are right. The Welsh are culturally village based and really had no interest further afield. I have only been discussing Wales. Even today people are not that interested in class but are interested in people who make it in the world.

The only people who buy into the class system are the ones who really should go and live in England.

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« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2015, 11:44:46 PM »

Kate knows Welsh? She can barely speak English.  Laughing I know William has attempted speeches in Welsh and seems pretty horrid at it, from a friend of mine who speaks it. Isn't Anglesey a primarily Welsh-speaking area? you'd think he'd learn it...
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« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2015, 03:04:23 AM »

Just an historical note - although Mary I was never official created as Princess of Wales she was sent to Wales by Henry VIII, set up a court there and was referred to as the Princess of Wales. This was before the break with Rome.

With the present Queen, I too have read that the title was discussed but ... the argument was that the title Princess of Wales could only be held by the wife of the Prince of Wales was one argument put forward.

Like the Cornwall and Rothesay titles, the holder of the Wales titles will have to be revisited when there is the probability of an heiress apparent, as in the past there has only ever been and heiress presumptive. As the next three monarchs are all kings it won't probably be dealt with until George is close to gaining the throne with an eldest child who is a girl - so around 60 years from now, given the longevity of the Windsor-Mountbatten genes.

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Jonathan

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« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2015, 07:47:15 AM »

Kate knows Welsh? She can barely speak English.  Laughing I know William has attempted speeches in Welsh and seems pretty horrid at it, from a friend of mine who speaks it. Isn't Anglesey a primarily Welsh-speaking area? you'd think he'd learn it...

She can speak a little Welsh. Unlike William she bothered to learn the language while she was living there.
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wisdomheaven

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« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2015, 08:04:52 AM »

Kate knows Welsh? She can barely speak English.  Laughing I know William has attempted speeches in Welsh and seems pretty horrid at it, from a friend of mine who speaks it. Isn't Anglesey a primarily Welsh-speaking area? you'd think he'd learn it...

She can speak a little Welsh. Unlike William she bothered to learn the language while she was living there.

Really? I never heard this before. I heard she was taking lessons, but I assumed that was just PR fluff...
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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2015, 08:17:00 AM »

the idea of bypassing Will for Harry constantly comes up  and while I appreciate the reasons behind it - it is not going to happen.

1)  they will not do anything that upsets the apple cart - anything out of the ordinary creates potential for a referendum on the continuation of the monarchy.

2)  this is not a choice the Queen makes - it is parliament.  You bring this discussion into parliament and it will quickly provide fodder for the republicans in Parliament - see point number 1.

Having said this - the RF is good at survival and along with the gov they find ways to get rid of undesirable heirs/kings.  But - to become an undesirable you need to be pretty awful -  lazy is not going to be enough to create a change.

Plus - not every monarch has been PoW - George V just off the top of my head as an example.

As for the North (of England) interesting historical issues there but if you look at where the RF spends their time re: engagements the North is a big loser.  I have always thought that the RF should spend more time in the North and cultivate a better relationship with the people there.

Enjoyed your comments Jonathan -

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Jonathan

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« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2015, 08:18:29 AM »

I think Kate is quite academic. I'm pretty sure that she was determined to consolidate her position at all  costs. I don't know how many languages she speaks. I'm also pretty sure that she wouldn't have had much fawning from the local population.
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Diogenes
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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2015, 05:00:35 PM »

She can speak a little Welsh. Unlike William she bothered to learn the language while she was living there.

Jonathan, I have never heard Welsh spoken by native speakers and would love to do so.  Can you recommend a YouTube video or something I could watch that would give me a sense of how it really sounds?  Tak in advance!
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dwi

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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2015, 07:24:59 PM »

Kate knows Welsh? She can barely speak English.  Laughing I know William has attempted speeches in Welsh and seems pretty horrid at it, from a friend of mine who speaks it. Isn't Anglesey a primarily Welsh-speaking area? you'd think he'd learn it...

She can speak a little Welsh. Unlike William she bothered to learn the language while she was living there.

Really? I never heard this before. I heard she was taking lessons, but I assumed that was just PR fluff...



yes.  I remember this too.  she learned it or at least a little of it while they were living there.
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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2015, 07:29:26 PM »

I think Kate is quite academic. I'm pretty sure that she was determined to consolidate her position at all  costs. I don't know how many languages she speaks. I'm also pretty sure that she wouldn't have had much fawning from the local population.


from what I read in articles when they lived in wales, the people didn't bother them.  it seemed that k&w, along w/ the locals interacted well w/ one another and down-to-earth.  it seems k&w liked it in wales because they could be themselves and had their privacy.  guess you appreciate your privacy more when you don't have it.  however, that's the unfortunate part of being a royal --lack of privacy.
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