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Author Topic: Carina Axelsson - 2016 NEWS & EVENTS  (Read 30666 times)
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Curtains

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« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2017, 08:45:57 PM »

So now that Gustav is head of the family, can he throw out those stupid Nazi house laws?  Even if he doesn't want to marry Carina, I can't imagine he'd be such a douchebag as to inflict this ridiculousness on his heirs.  

There are two things here: House laws, and his grandfather's will.

The will added the 'Aryan' clause to marriage partners. No, Gus can't overturn that because he inherited predicated on that will, and that will's strictures regulate only him; that's because he was the intended inheritor (and it's why Prince Richard, who had been born when the will was created, was passed over in favor of an unknown future theoretical Gus.) It's also why the family never sought to have Prince Richard's father declared dead until the 1960s, when Gus was born (although the older Prince, Richard's father, had clearly been missing/dead in action since the mid 1940s, over 20 years by the time Gus popped out.) The will legally can only bind to Gus' generation; it cannot and does not bind the next generations.

House laws, which are separate from the will and much much older in established date, are much the same on marriage partners, dropping only the Aryan clause. Potential brides must still be noble (4 generations) and Protestant under House law. House law governs the stuff: estates, money, named objet, land, mineral rights, timber rights, riparian rights, etc etc. So Gus' heirs can marry within those House laws and retaIn the stuff. They can marry whoever they want if they don't care about having stuff.

House laws have been tested in Europe for other aristocratic and noble families, within the past one or two decades and under evolved EU, EC, and human rights laws, and have been upheld.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 08:57:10 PM by Curtains » Logged

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« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2017, 08:57:10 PM »

The "noble" part of the House laws is antiquated and pointless, especially in a country like Germany.  I know they want to keep all the stuff, but I'm genuinely surprised that so-called nobility requirements continue to stand up in court, in a country that has outlawed nobility. 
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« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2017, 09:00:49 PM »

I doubt that he would lose his money now if he would marry his girlfriend. The will is probably considered immoral. So if he wanted to marry he could just give her the money and marry her. It is his money, so what he does with it is only his business. All he needs to do is telling the press that his mean family members do not allow him to marry the woman he loves because of the will of his Nazi grandfather. Would cause a nice scandal in Germany because most people consider the Aryan clause as horribly immoral
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Curtains

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« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2017, 09:03:56 PM »

The "noble" part of the House laws is antiquated and pointless, especially in a country like Germany.  I know they want to keep all the stuff, but I'm genuinely surprised that so-called nobility requirements continue to stand up in court, in a country that has outlawed nobility. 

It's rare that it's even questioned, even in present day. Example is the Prussian Royal house, with similar laws.

If House laws said you couldn't marry outside of them, period, they could probably be tossed. But since human rights don't include a mandate that you must be able to live in a castle, or be the guy in charge, they will remain and have withstood challenge.

You retain the princely title if you marry outside House law, like Prince Robin of S-W-B, but since those were abolished anyway, they have as much value as a pitcher full of spit.
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Curtains

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« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2017, 09:09:53 PM »

I doubt that he would lose his money now if he would marry his girlfriend. The will is probably considered immoral. So if he wanted to marry he could just give her the money and marry her. It is his money, so what he does with it is only his business. All he needs to do is telling the press that his mean family members do not allow him to marry the woman he loves because of the will of his Nazi grandfather. Would cause a nice scandal in Germany because most people consider the Aryan clause as horribly immoral

Trier please see my earlier response. Immoral, yes, legally binding, also yes.  

Complicating this is that if Gus does that, marries in contravention, then he sets up a chain of re-instating prior excluded heirs as well, meaning doing so would let him 'win' marriage and end up losing the 'stuff' anyway.

Since he long ago came to terms with 'stuff over marriage', he has pragmatically accepted the benefits of his own choice. He would be a complete hypocrite to suddenly get heady on love and crusade for stuff/money too, not to mention that, as I said earlier, it would be a Pyrrhic victory at best.

This was estate planning, it was thorough, it covered much more than cold hard cash, and it benefitted (and still benefits) Benedikte and Gus's sisters and their children. There's a lot here..and it's here to stay.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 09:31:38 PM by Curtains » Logged

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« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2017, 09:54:56 PM »

http://www.castleholic.co...us-sayn-wittgenstein.html


Best explanation of the will and maybe why he doesn't marry .
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« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2017, 11:14:46 PM »

I doubt that he would lose his money now if he would marry his girlfriend. The will is probably considered immoral. So if he wanted to marry he could just give her the money and marry her. It is his money, so what he does with it is only his business. All he needs to do is telling the press that his mean family members do not allow him to marry the woman he loves because of the will of his Nazi grandfather. Would cause a nice scandal in Germany because most people consider the Aryan clause as horribly immoral

Trier please see my earlier response. Immoral, yes, legally binding, also yes.  

Complicating this is that if Gus does that, marries in contravention, then he sets up a chain of re-instating prior excluded heirs as well, meaning doing so would let him 'win' marriage and end up losing the 'stuff' anyway.

Since he long ago came to terms with 'stuff over marriage', he has pragmatically accepted the benefits of his own choice. He would be a complete hypocrite to suddenly get heady on love and crusade for stuff/money too, not to mention that, as I said earlier, it would be a Pyrrhic victory at best.

This was estate planning, it was thorough, it covered much more than cold hard cash, and it benefitted (and still benefits) Benedikte and Gus's sisters and their children. There's a lot here..and it's here to stay.



Whether or not he's greedy enough to care about the stipulations of that Nazi bs, it still doesn't change the fact that such language is not only STILL codified, it's seen still seen as the law of the day, which is absolutely vile and unacceptable in this day and age. 

And that is the most disturbing thing of all, IMO. 
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« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2017, 02:38:08 AM »

So now that Gustav is head of the family, can he throw out those stupid Nazi house laws?  Even if he doesn't want to marry Carina, I can't imagine he'd be such a douchebag as to inflict this ridiculousness on his heirs. 

There are two things here: House laws, and his grandfather's will.

The will added the 'Aryan' clause to marriage partners. No, Gus can't overturn that because he inherited predicated on that will, and that will's strictures regulate only him; that's because he was the intended inheritor (and it's why Prince Richard, who had been born when the will was created, was passed over in favor of an unknown future theoretical Gus.) It's also why the family never sought to have Prince Richard's father declared dead until the 1960s, when Gus was born (although the older Prince, Richard's father, had clearly been missing/dead in action since the mid 1940s, over 20 years by the time Gus popped out.) The will legally can only bind to Gus' generation; it cannot and does not bind the next generations.

House laws, which are separate from the will and much much older in established date, are much the same on marriage partners, dropping only the Aryan clause. Potential brides must still be noble (4 generations) and Protestant under House law. House law governs the stuff: estates, money, named objet, land, mineral rights, timber rights, riparian rights, etc etc. So Gus' heirs can marry within those House laws and retaIn the stuff. They can marry whoever they want if they don't care about having stuff.

House laws have been tested in Europe for other aristocratic and noble families, within the past one or two decades and under evolved EU, EC, and human rights laws, and have been upheld.

sorry Curtains...but what happens if Gussie doesn't have any heirs and spares? does his cousin get all the loot?

So if gussie married a woman even if she was mad but fulfilled all these requirements he'd keep the castle? Confused

If he then had an heir (does it matter which gender??) would that offspring get it all?

Could he divorce her once she's fulfilled the requirements?

How do they pay for the upkeep of the castle now..servants etc...?

Tak  Hug

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« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2017, 08:34:59 AM »

From the above link I posted

Quote
If he never gets married, the estates remain his property and he is free to do with them as he wishes to. Remember that I mentioned previously that the estates and titles are apparently not attached to each other?! See Gustav being the estate's owner while Richard is the F?rst. So if Gustav wishes to, he can come up with a will of his own stating basically whatever he wishes to (in accordance with today's laws). For example, that one of the children of his sisters, Princess Alexandra or Princess Nathalie, will inherit the castle, the forests and whatever else the family owns. The title of F?rst zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg would still go aforementioned F?rst Bernhart of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein - based on the house law (if it includes a passage about equal marriage; if not, it would go to Gustav's uncle Prince Robin and his descendants), not the will - but the estate, in difference, would pass to the person of Gustav's choosing. Actually, he could have even had children out of wedlock with whichever person she chose to - Carina, for example - and he could give those children his castle, just not his title.




http://www.castleholic.co...us-sayn-wittgenstein.html

So if he doesn't marry , the estate not the title can stay in family hands
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« Reply #69 on: March 23, 2017, 08:44:04 AM »

From the above link I posted

Quote
If he never gets married, the estates remain his property and he is free to do with them as he wishes to. Remember that I mentioned previously that the estates and titles are apparently not attached to each other?! See Gustav being the estate's owner while Richard is the F?rst. So if Gustav wishes to, he can come up with a will of his own stating basically whatever he wishes to (in accordance with today's laws). For example, that one of the children of his sisters, Princess Alexandra or Princess Nathalie, will inherit the castle, the forests and whatever else the family owns. The title of F?rst zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg would still go aforementioned F?rst Bernhart of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein - based on the house law (if it includes a passage about equal marriage; if not, it would go to Gustav's uncle Prince Robin and his descendants), not the will - but the estate, in difference, would pass to the person of Gustav's choosing. Actually, he could have even had children out of wedlock with whichever person she chose to - Carina, for example - and he could give those children his castle, just not his title.




http://www.castleholic.co...us-sayn-wittgenstein.html

So if he doesn't marry , the estate not the title can stay in family hands
]

Thx TB  Star

so if he chose to sacrifice himself, he can give the estate to his sister's offsprings.
Or he can have chlidren out of wedlock and leave them the castle.
Not his title.

so great.

why can't he have children with Carina but not get married to her then?

Let the title go to uncle rob

G Smiley
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