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Author Topic: Royal names  (Read 96553 times)
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fairy

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« Reply #720 on: May 28, 2021, 09:19:29 PM »

Half of my mother's family is called Mathilde, with any nickname you can think of....
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Cordelia Fitzgerald

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« Reply #721 on: May 29, 2021, 04:10:45 AM »

Half of my mother's family is called Mathilde, with any nickname you can think of....

I used to be neutral on that name, and then I became a fan of Queen Mathilde, and now I love that name!  Much prefer that version to Matilda.  Because I think Queen Mathilde is so gracious and elegant and warm, I ascribe those attributes to that name in general now.
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Cordelia Fitzgerald

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« Reply #722 on: May 29, 2021, 04:12:38 AM »

How often is a Princess named Adelgunde?     
Princess Adelgunde of Bavaria (1823-1914) was a daughter of King Ludwig I of Bavaria.
If only once, then certainly once too many times. That is indeed ahorrid thing to call your innocent baby girl.... Crap

I often have that feeling when I see the names of the youngest daughters of Ludwig III of Bavaria and his wife Maria Theresa of Austria-Este (18491919)


Princess Notburga (19 March 1883 24 March 1883).
Princess Wiltrud (10 November 1884 28 March 1975)
Princess Helmtrud (22 March 1886 23 June 1977).
Princess Dietlinde (2 January 1888 14 February 1889)
Princess Gundelinde (26 August 1891 16 August 1983)

Ooh those are some...rough...names.
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anastasia beaverhausen

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« Reply #723 on: May 29, 2021, 03:46:50 PM »

I think Princess Notburga wins for worst name ever.
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Countess of Cows

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« Reply #724 on: May 29, 2021, 06:47:21 PM »

Yep worst ever!

Speaking of names LOL watching a clip from Will and Grace this morning, Karen  drops her alias in a bar and explains...."Anastasia, like the Russian royal princess and Beaverhausen, like where beavers live."  I love that gal!  Makes me think of you every time  Champagne
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anastasia beaverhausen

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« Reply #725 on: May 29, 2021, 08:53:57 PM »

Yep worst ever!

Speaking of names LOL watching a clip from Will and Grace this morning, Karen  drops her alias in a bar and explains...."Anastasia, like the Russian royal princess and Beaverhausen, like where beavers live."  I love that gal!  Makes me think of you every time  Champagne

Awwwww. I love Megan Mullally so much and that character was genius, so thank you!   Hug
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Miss Marple

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« Reply #726 on: May 29, 2021, 10:32:09 PM »

I live in Germany and I only met one girl that was called Wiltrud and my kindergarten teacher was Dietlinde. Never met anyone with the other names ....

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Cordelia Fitzgerald

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« Reply #727 on: May 29, 2021, 10:48:44 PM »

I live in Germany and I only met one girl that was called Wiltrud and my kindergarten teacher was Dietlinde. Never met anyone with the other names ....



Were those names considered out of date/old-fashioned, or beautiful, or even just no big deal? 
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Miss Marple

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« Reply #728 on: May 29, 2021, 11:00:43 PM »

First of all they were very rare. And they don't have a "ring" to them, they sound a bit clumsy and old-fashioned.

Diethilde - well, my mom is in her early 80s now and she has a few friends called "Hilde" - what must have been a fashion at one stage. In Nazi-Germany people were discouraged to give their children Christian names (before that it was the "normal" thing to do) and so a lot of these names came on the scene, were used for a generation and then the naming went partly back to pre-war patterns and the other parts were "waves", e.g. in the 70s French names became so popular like Nicole, Stephanie ... they still are, but other names (Amelie, Leon, ....).

What is happening now in Germany that the upper middle class goes for very classical names (Charlotte, Sophie, ...) while the working class loves different name patterns - so very often the name of a child tells you about its social background without any other information.

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anastasia beaverhausen

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« Reply #729 on: May 29, 2021, 11:04:55 PM »

First of all they were very rare. And they don't have a "ring" to them, they sound a bit clumsy and old-fashioned.

Diethilde - well, my mom is in her early 80s now and she has a few friends called "Hilde" - what must have been a fashion at one stage. In Nazi-Germany people were discouraged to give their children Christian names (before that it was the "normal" thing to do) and so a lot of these names came on the scene, were used for a generation and then the naming went partly back to pre-war patterns and the other parts were "waves", e.g. in the 70s French names became so popular like Nicole, Stephanie ... they still are, but other names (Amelie, Leon, ....).

What is happening now in Germany that the upper middle class goes for very classical names (Charlotte, Sophie, ...) while the working class loves different name patterns - so very often the name of a child tells you about its social background without any other information.



Thanks Miss Marple!  I always wondered how my German friend Babette got her name, but never had the nerve to ask.
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Cordelia Fitzgerald

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« Reply #730 on: May 29, 2021, 11:06:24 PM »

First of all they were very rare. And they don't have a "ring" to them, they sound a bit clumsy and old-fashioned.

Diethilde - well, my mom is in her early 80s now and she has a few friends called "Hilde" - what must have been a fashion at one stage. In Nazi-Germany people were discouraged to give their children Christian names (before that it was the "normal" thing to do) and so a lot of these names came on the scene, were used for a generation and then the naming went partly back to pre-war patterns and the other parts were "waves", e.g. in the 70s French names became so popular like Nicole, Stephanie ... they still are, but other names (Amelie, Leon, ....).

What is happening now in Germany that the upper middle class goes for very classical names (Charlotte, Sophie, ...) while the working class loves different name patterns - so very often the name of a child tells you about its social background without any other information.



Very interesting!  Thank you!  I've learned so much today on this site...how to keep palm trees alive in Norway, naming patterns in Germany...I love this site and the willingness of Dishers to share their knowledge!   Champagne
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Miss Marple

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« Reply #731 on: May 30, 2021, 09:05:11 AM »

It is really funny how naming patters change over the years. Very often the same names were kept in the families and it did not matter whether you were the king, the servant or the farmhand, basically you would all use the same pool of names. So Anna could be queen, servant or farmhand - a name fitting everyone.

To understand these names that were mentioned you need to see them in the context of history: All these names mentioned above are old, strong Germanic names. As they were given before the 20th century the parents wanted to illustrate their connection with the old Germans and traditions which was not a bad thing.

Let's have a closer look at them:

Notburga is still used today, but it is not a common name. It has a very nice meaning to it: "Not" translates as hardship, "burg" as a castle so it is bascially "the rock of strength". It is however a very Germanic/ German name, so if you name your kid Notburga today (without living in a region where it is more common or with family ties) you send a message at the same time about your political views. At least some people would pick up a message.

Same with Wiltrud - same naming category. Translates as "wil" = will and "trud" which is the Germanic word for "strength". So it is someone with will power.

Helmtrud - "helm" is the helmet, trud again is the word for "strength".

Dietlinde is an old Germanic name - there was a germanic queen Dietlinde. Lind can be "a snake" (wisdom) or "a shield".

Gundelinde - gund is the old Germanic word for fight, linde - see above. So this is the woman who is protecting the warrior.

This naming pattern has not been continued since 1945, but it was common before that time. It was, however, in many regions overshadowed by the demand of the Catholic church that children should have the name of a saint. These names illustrate the old Germanic idea, when people believed that the bearer of the name would grow into the wish his/her Christian name had given her. So Notburga would be a very caring woman and provide strength to other people. In that sense they were all very positive names because they illustrated the wish of the parent for their daughter to be an extraordinary female with one "superpower".

This naming pattern was not uncommon and it got a huge revivial during the Nazi regime when all Germanic things were totally  idealized and people were discouraged from using Christian names. In 1944 the name "Siegfried" was among the most popular names for boys - following the same pattern "Sieg" = victory and "fried" = peace. That was what people wanted in the last year of the war. As these naming patterns are closely linked to the Nazi Regime (who idealized everything Germanic) people would refrain from using that kinds of names today (unless, as mentioned, they wanted to make a political statement with the name of their children).

After the war some social classes went back to the pre-war naming patterns while others followed the current trends and did not return. This is how, for example, Kevin because the paradigm of a real low class name in Germany while it is a "normal male name" in English speaking countries. Why? Kevin was not a name that was used in Germany at all and it became hugely popular with the movies "Kevin alone ...". It became so popular that a certain class of people would use it because they liked Kevin in the movies and they wanted their kid to be a bit cheeky, ....

This is something the middle class would never do - take a name from a foreign language and name the child after an US American film character. So basically all the Kevins are from working class or below. Even worse: it also showed that the parents approved of Kevin's cheeky behaviour in the movies - so many German Kevins really became brats in real life. It has been said about German Kevins that it is not longer a name, but it also includes a diagonosis.
 
 

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« Reply #732 on: May 30, 2021, 09:10:07 AM »

P.S. Adelgunde is adel= of noble birth and gunde = a fighter - so it is a girl fighting for a good/ noble cause.
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« Reply #733 on: May 30, 2021, 11:37:30 AM »

It is really funny how naming patters change over the years. Very often the same names were kept in the families and it did not matter whether you were the king, the servant or the farmhand, basically you would all use the same pool of names. So Anna could be queen, servant or farmhand - a name fitting everyone.

To understand these names that were mentioned you need to see them in the context of history: All these names mentioned above are old, strong Germanic names. As they were given before the 20th century the parents wanted to illustrate their connection with the old Germans and traditions which was not a bad thing.

Let's have a closer look at them:

Notburga is still used today, but it is not a common name. It has a very nice meaning to it: "Not" translates as hardship, "burg" as a castle so it is bascially "the rock of strength". It is however a very Germanic/ German name, so if you name your kid Notburga today (without living in a region where it is more common or with family ties) you send a message at the same time about your political views. At least some people would pick up a message.

Same with Wiltrud - same naming category. Translates as "wil" = will and "trud" which is the Germanic word for "strength". So it is someone with will power.

Helmtrud - "helm" is the helmet, trud again is the word for "strength".

Dietlinde is an old Germanic name - there was a germanic queen Dietlinde. Lind can be "a snake" (wisdom) or "a shield".

Gundelinde - gund is the old Germanic word for fight, linde - see above. So this is the woman who is protecting the warrior.

This naming pattern has not been continued since 1945, but it was common before that time. It was, however, in many regions overshadowed by the demand of the Catholic church that children should have the name of a saint. These names illustrate the old Germanic idea, when people believed that the bearer of the name would grow into the wish his/her Christian name had given her. So Notburga would be a very caring woman and provide strength to other people. In that sense they were all very positive names because they illustrated the wish of the parent for their daughter to be an extraordinary female with one "superpower".

This naming pattern was not uncommon and it got a huge revivial during the Nazi regime when all Germanic things were totally  idealized and people were discouraged from using Christian names. In 1944 the name "Siegfried" was among the most popular names for boys - following the same pattern "Sieg" = victory and "fried" = peace. That was what people wanted in the last year of the war. As these naming patterns are closely linked to the Nazi Regime (who idealized everything Germanic) people would refrain from using that kinds of names today (unless, as mentioned, they wanted to make a political statement with the name of their children).

After the war some social classes went back to the pre-war naming patterns while others followed the current trends and did not return. This is how, for example, Kevin because the paradigm of a real low class name in Germany while it is a "normal male name" in English speaking countries. Why? Kevin was not a name that was used in Germany at all and it became hugely popular with the movies "Kevin alone ...". It became so popular that a certain class of people would use it because they liked Kevin in the movies and they wanted their kid to be a bit cheeky, ....

This is something the middle class would never do - take a name from a foreign language and name the child after an US American film character. So basically all the Kevins are from working class or below. Even worse: it also showed that the parents approved of Kevin's cheeky behaviour in the movies - so many German Kevins really became brats in real life. It has been said about German Kevins that it is not longer a name, but it also includes a diagonosis.
 
 



Thank you very much for this interesting info and explanation!

I think you partially see the same patterns in Dutch name giving. A lot of names ending on "lyn" are associated with lower class. For many years I liked the name Caitlin, but got negative reactions on it later on. Just because of the associations. But then it is often written as Katelyn or so. Influence of US movies and other media.
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Cordelia Fitzgerald

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« Reply #734 on: May 30, 2021, 07:42:18 PM »

Fascinating!!  I love when names have meaning and heritage, and I believe that in many ways your name can shape your character (even if for the worse, as evidenced by the fate of German Kevins!).  I love the meaning of those names which originally sounded harsh.

Miss Marple, can you break down the meaning of Gertrude?  I assume it's the same, where "trud" means strength.  I'm not named Gertrude; I'm just curious!
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