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Author Topic: Royal Titles  (Read 19343 times)
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Tsarina

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« Reply #60 on: August 26, 2020, 10:53:56 PM »

So what does:

HRH The Duke of Cambridge KG KT PC ADC (P)
And
The Duke of Sussex KCVO
mean?

They refer to their membership in orders of chivalry and other roles in service of the monarch.

Harry is a Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order (KCVO).

William is a Knight of the Order of the Garter (KG), a Knight of the Order of the Thistle (KT), a member of the Privy Council of the U.K. (PC), and a Personal aide-de-camp to the Queen [ADC(P)].
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cordtx

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« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2020, 11:10:00 PM »

That was on the tax stuff for the Strabezee ( sp?) tax forms for the memorial service. In guess no HRH anymore
Thanks Tsarina!
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lynaH

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« Reply #62 on: August 27, 2020, 01:06:30 AM »

That was on the tax stuff for the Strabezee ( sp?) tax forms for the memorial service. In guess no HRH anymore
Thanks Tsarina!
Also not an Aide de Camp any more. That must have gone when all the military positions were suspended.
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cordtx

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« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2020, 01:20:25 AM »

That was on the tax stuff for the Strabezee ( sp?) tax forms for the memorial service. In guess no HRH anymore
Thanks Tsarina!
Also not an Aide de Camp any more. That must have gone when all the military positions were suspended.
Yes I thought so too but wasn’t sure.
Interesting
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luvcharles

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« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2020, 06:09:40 AM »

The ADC is still listed on his wikipedia page.

It is usually held for life for those who have served in the military with Edward being the exception (he gained it on gaining honorary rank).

The only person who has 'retired' is Mark Philips but that is still listed - ADC (Ret) beside his list of titles and honours.

I suspect it was an oversight rather than that Harry no longer holds that honour. He is still going to get his promotions every five years I suspect - as is the norm for royals who served in the military.
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Margaret

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« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2020, 12:01:32 PM »

The ADC is still listed on his wikipedia page.

It is usually held for life for those who have served in the military with Edward being the exception (he gained it on gaining honorary rank).

The only person who has 'retired' is Mark Philips but that is still listed - ADC (Ret) beside his list of titles and honours.

I suspect it was an oversight rather than that Harry no longer holds that honour. He is still going to get his promotions every five years I suspect - as is the norm for royals who served in the military.

It will be interesting to see if he does.  Because of decisions he made, Harry has has lost his honorary military positions.  Also,  he resigned from the military because he didn't want to do the desk job that had been crafted for him.  In these circumstances it seems inappropriate to keep giving him promotions.   
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lynaH

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« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2020, 02:36:35 PM »

The ADC is still listed on his wikipedia page.

It is usually held for life for those who have served in the military with Edward being the exception (he gained it on gaining honorary rank).

The only person who has 'retired' is Mark Philips but that is still listed - ADC (Ret) beside his list of titles and honours.

I suspect it was an oversight rather than that Harry no longer holds that honour. He is still going to get his promotions every five years I suspect - as is the norm for royals who served in the military.
Wikipedia is not the most accurate source of info. This charity however is run by insiders who understand exactly how important these little details are. If they left out those 4 letters, then Harry will not have gold braid on his shoulder if he ever wears a dress uniform again.
After all HRH was supposed to be for life as well.
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ralf103

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« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2020, 05:28:02 PM »

To be honest I wouldn't place too much store in the charity either. They may have just gone on what was sent them by each royals office etc. I  don't think we can assume it been taken off Harry just because it wasn't used on this one thing.
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Thistle

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« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2020, 09:32:57 PM »

So what does:

HRH The Duke of Cambridge KG KT PC ADC (P)
And
The Duke of Sussex KCVO
mean?

It their orders and ranks inside the Royal Household.

For William:
KG = Royal Knight Companion of the Order of the Garter
KT = Knight Companion of the Order of the Thistle
PC = Member of the Privy Council of the United Kingdom
ADC (P) = Personal aide-de-camp to HM The Queen, Squadron Leader / Major / Lieutenant Commander

For Harry:
KCVO = Knight Comander of the Royal Victorian Order
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Lady Alice

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« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2020, 01:41:29 AM »

So what does:

HRH The Duke of Cambridge KG KT PC ADC (P)
And
The Duke of Sussex KCVO
mean?

Cambridge: Knight of the Garter, Knight of the Thistle, Privy Counsellor, Aide de Camp to the Queen
Sussex: Knight Commander of the Victorian Order

I hope Harry doesn't see another honour bestowed. He's a train wreck.

EDIT: sorry, Thistle - we crossposted.
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luvcharles

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« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2020, 03:21:20 AM »

The ADC is still listed on his wikipedia page.

It is usually held for life for those who have served in the military with Edward being the exception (he gained it on gaining honorary rank).

The only person who has 'retired' is Mark Philips but that is still listed - ADC (Ret) beside his list of titles and honours.

I suspect it was an oversight rather than that Harry no longer holds that honour. He is still going to get his promotions every five years I suspect - as is the norm for royals who served in the military.
Wikipedia is not the most accurate source of info. This charity however is run by insiders who understand exactly how important these little details are. If they left out those 4 letters, then Harry will not have gold braid on his shoulder if he ever wears a dress uniform again.
After all HRH was supposed to be for life as well.

HRH is for life. Harry is still HRH and will be until he dies, unless the rules are changed by Charles or William which I can't see either of them doing. Harry is a male-line grandchild of the monarch. He will be the child of the monarch at some time in the future.

George VI made it clear that even Edward VIII, after the abdication was still HRH The Prince Edward as he would always be 'the son of a monarch'.

Harry has agreed to not use HRH. He hasn't lost that style and won't lose it.
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lynaH

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« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2020, 03:24:49 AM »

The ADC is still listed on his wikipedia page.

It is usually held for life for those who have served in the military with Edward being the exception (he gained it on gaining honorary rank).

The only person who has 'retired' is Mark Philips but that is still listed - ADC (Ret) beside his list of titles and honours.

I suspect it was an oversight rather than that Harry no longer holds that honour. He is still going to get his promotions every five years I suspect - as is the norm for royals who served in the military.
Wikipedia is not the most accurate source of info. This charity however is run by insiders who understand exactly how important these little details are. If they left out those 4 letters, then Harry will not have gold braid on his shoulder if he ever wears a dress uniform again.
After all HRH was supposed to be for life as well.

HRH is for life. Harry is still HRH and will be until he dies, unless the rules are changed by Charles or William which I can't see either of them doing. Harry is a male-line grandchild of the monarch. He will be the child of the monarch at some time in the future.

George VI made it clear that even Edward VIII, after the abdication was still HRH The Prince Edward as he would always be 'the son of a monarch'.

Harry has agreed to not use HRH. He hasn't lost that style and won't lose it.
Diana and Sarah lost their HRH. Diana was the mother of a future monarch.
Harry gave up use of the HRH because he was told if he didn't it would be taken away.
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Duchess of Verona

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« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2020, 03:56:55 AM »

William:
KG=Knight of the Garter
KT = Knight of the Thistle
PC = Member of the Privy Council
ADC (P) = Personal Aide de Camp to the Sovereign


Froggy:
KCVO = Knight Commander of the Victorian Order

Just catching up. We dropped off Juliet of Verona at her college 6 hours away.
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esther angeline

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« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2020, 04:45:48 AM »

I'm sorry if this is posted elsewhere, but I have been unable to find the post (admittedly I haven't read through the many, many posts shared in this and other threads).

If Eugenie and Beatrice have children before Charles becomes King, will they be legible for a royal title, given that Eug and Bea are children of male line descendants to the throne? I am unsure as Edo and Jack have not become Royal Dukes nor Earls and the position in line to the throne for the princesses are somewhat down the line, and ofc the fact they are princesses rather than princes may inhibit them.

I cant think of any recent examples bar Margaret, whose husband was made an Earl at their weddikkng, and Princess Mary who became Countess Lascelles upon her marriage, though I am sure you on this board will politely remind me! I am all too familiar with the acquiring of titles in the Swedish Royal Family and find the BRF a confusing one to understand!

In the UK the only people who are entitled to being HRH Prince/Princess are:

1. The children of the monarch (Beatrice and Eugenie's children won't meet that criteria)

2. Male line grandchildren of the monarch (Beatrice and Eugenie meet that criteria but their own children won't)

3. The children of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales (Beatrice and Eugenie's children won't meet that criteria)

As a result their children won't be royal unless something dreadful happens to Charles, William and children, Harry and Archie.

Archie will become a Prince when Charles becomes King. He could be known as the Earl of Dumbarton now - using Harry's second title as a courtesy title, as James uses Viscount Severn or the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent's eldest sons use their father's second titles as a courtesy title. When their father's die they will inherit the Dukedoms but they won't be royal so both those Dukedoms will cease to be royal Dukedoms. Archie could also be Lord Archie as he is a male line great grandchild of a monarch as are Lord Frederick and Lady Gabriella Windsor (children of Prince Michael of Kent).


When the Dukes of Kent and Gloucester die, you said their sons' dukedoms will cease to be royal.  How far down their male lines will the dukedoms be retained?  Could these titles go on for generations as long as there are male heirs?  These usual royal dukedoms could be out of the running to be granted again to a new generation?
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lynaH

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« Reply #74 on: August 28, 2020, 05:09:24 AM »

I'm sorry if this is posted elsewhere, but I have been unable to find the post (admittedly I haven't read through the many, many posts shared in this and other threads).

If Eugenie and Beatrice have children before Charles becomes King, will they be legible for a royal title, given that Eug and Bea are children of male line descendants to the throne? I am unsure as Edo and Jack have not become Royal Dukes nor Earls and the position in line to the throne for the princesses are somewhat down the line, and ofc the fact they are princesses rather than princes may inhibit them.

I cant think of any recent examples bar Margaret, whose husband was made an Earl at their weddikkng, and Princess Mary who became Countess Lascelles upon her marriage, though I am sure you on this board will politely remind me! I am all too familiar with the acquiring of titles in the Swedish Royal Family and find the BRF a confusing one to understand!

In the UK the only people who are entitled to being HRH Prince/Princess are:

1. The children of the monarch (Beatrice and Eugenie's children won't meet that criteria)

2. Male line grandchildren of the monarch (Beatrice and Eugenie meet that criteria but their own children won't)

3. The children of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales (Beatrice and Eugenie's children won't meet that criteria)

As a result their children won't be royal unless something dreadful happens to Charles, William and children, Harry and Archie.

Archie will become a Prince when Charles becomes King. He could be known as the Earl of Dumbarton now - using Harry's second title as a courtesy title, as James uses Viscount Severn or the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent's eldest sons use their father's second titles as a courtesy title. When their father's die they will inherit the Dukedoms but they won't be royal so both those Dukedoms will cease to be royal Dukedoms. Archie could also be Lord Archie as he is a male line great grandchild of a monarch as are Lord Frederick and Lady Gabriella Windsor (children of Prince Michael of Kent).


When the Dukes of Kent and Gloucester die, you said their sons' dukedoms will cease to be royal.  How far down their male lines will the dukedoms be retained?  Could these titles go on for generations as long as there are male heirs?  These usual royal dukedoms could be out of the running to be granted again to a new generation?
They last as long as there are male heirs. Kent was only royal since Queen Victoria's father in any case. Gloucester is ancient, and will cease to be royal, but there are loads of other traditionally royal dukedoms to be granted: Kendal, Clarence, Ross, Albany, Edinburgh.
And I would like to see a Duke of Cardiff ,Caernarfon,or Belfast. Cumberland and Windsor should probably be avoided though, since they have poor associations.
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