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Author Topic: London high-rise fire  (Read 6046 times)
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PruNordstrom

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« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2017, 09:36:05 PM »

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Metropolitan Police‏   Verified account @metpoliceuk  3h
#GrenfellTower fire investigation update:  sadly 58 are missing and we assumed likely to have died.

Metropolitan Police   ‏Verified account @metpoliceuk  Jun 16
At least 30 fatalities confirmed in #GrenfellTower fire

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PruNordstrom

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« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2017, 09:56:55 PM »

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Home Office‏   Verified account @ukhomeoffice  Jun 16
Support available for people affected by the fire at #GrenfellTower: http://bit.ly/2s8TfBf
[PN note: bitly decoded]
https://www.gov.uk/guidan...pport-for-people-affected

(From the above web page)
Mental health support
If you are affected by the Grenfell Tower fire, either directly or indirectly, and in need of mental health support or psychological therapy you can call a dedicated NHS response service number where you can get access to mental health support services as well as information and advice 24 hours a day.[/quote]

So...where is Heads Together? Here they are:

Quote
Heads Together  
‏Verified account @heads_together  Jun 14
If you're feeling affected by #GrenfellTower, @MindCharity have info on talking treatments: http://bit.ly/2s0IO2R

Heads Together   ‏Verified account   @heads_together  Jun 16
Replying to @sophiexxxxxx @MindCharity
Hi Sophie, thanks for your comment & a great idea. We've seen lots of wonderful fundraisers set up but unfortunately we are unable to (1/2)

Heads Together‏   Verified account @heads_together  Jun 16
Replying to @sophiexxxxx @MindCharity
Co-ordinate a fund. We have been sharing advice & support that is available to those affected by this incident. all the best, Amy HT Team

Really Heads Together? You couldn't retweet the url from ukhomeoffice?
How unhelpful can you be?

Note: I intentionally replaced the end of Sophie's twitter account with x's.
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royalsareajoke

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« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2017, 01:48:16 AM »

Cry


My heart is aching over this. Two residents, survivors, were interviewed on camera and the journalist asked about the multi-million dollar pound refurbishment.

Their response struck me to my core: The money was used to enhance the exterior of the building; the wealthy neighbours had been complaining about it as an eyesore. And then they cheaped out on that too - as someone posted, a small amount would have made those materials fire proof.

My sincere hope is that the building remains as is, as a permanent monument to greed and the failure to do what right and a symbol of their hollow hearts and malevolence. This is what evil looks like.

Temi, I'm right there with you. I don't understand the politics at all, but these words coming from people who survived, but who will never fully recover, tell me all I need to know. Totally gut wrenching, heart breaking, and enraging. And yes, leave it as is, don't let "them" cover up or sanitize their crime. To me, from what I've read this truly is a crime scene. Quite frankly  I am heartened to see protests and rage, and as loud as it is and needs to be this will hopefully stay non-violent. Far far too many victims already.  I only read a few comments and had to retreat, really nasty stuff.  A  Star for you.

ETA: This will be my last comment on this, I'll read what others think, those who understand the part that politics played in this, and continue to pray.  This is such a horrible and devastating thing that I don't want my clumsy words to inadvertently  upset anyone.  No 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 01:59:56 AM by royalsareajoke » Logged

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PruNordstrom

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« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2017, 11:42:23 PM »

From BBC
19 June
Quote
19 June 2017
Four separate government ministers were warned that fire regulations were not keeping people safe, in letters that have subsequently been seen by the BBC. In the leaked letters, experts warn that those living in tower blocks like Grenfell Tower were "at risk".
...The letters show experts have been worried about fire safety in tower blocks for years. Following a fatal fire in Lakanal House in south London in 2009, a series of recommendations were made to keep people safe.
They were ignored. The government promised a review of fire regulations in 2013, but it still has not happened.
...BBC One's Panorama has obtained a dozen letters sent by the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety and Rescue Group.
...In December 2015, the all-party group wrote to [a minister in the department] and warned about the risk of fires spreading on the outside of buildings with cladding.

In a separate development, Panorama has discovered that firefighters put out the first fire at Grenfell Tower. They were called to a fridge fire, and within minutes told residents the fire was out in the flat. The crew was leaving the building when firefighters outside spotted flames rising up the side of the building. The Fire Brigades Union say firefighters were left facing an unprecedented fire, and officers broke their own safety protocol to rescue people.
>The full article at: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40330789

It will be a long time before the investigation(s) get to the bottom of this story.
I have nothing more that I can write about the compounding errors that led to this tragedy.
Hope the survivors receive all the support and comfort they need.
So, I will end and make no further comments.




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casie

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« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2017, 07:38:05 AM »

As I suspected, it wasn't just smoke that people were fighting in that stairwell while trying to make their way down.  It was toxic gas created from the burning cladding itself.

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Fears of London fire 'cyanide gas' as cladding burned

INSULATION fitted to Grenfell Tower gave off a highly toxic cyanide gas which may have led to the deaths of some of the 79 confirmed victims, it's been claimed.

An expert has claimed insulation boards fitted to the outside of the building during a previous makeover produce a deadly gas when they burn.

Potentially every flat could have been filled with enough gas to kill those inside, The Sun newspaper reports.

https://www.noosanews.com...-cladding-burned/3192409/
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Hester
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« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2017, 12:04:31 PM »

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London Fire Brigade   ‏Verified account 23h
We've used specialist search dogs at #GrenfellTower. They're lighter than humans and can cover a large area quickly
 

The search dogs are wearing heat-proof boots.

I don't know why really but these pictures tipped me over and made me cry. Something about the dogs' melting sweetness and he job hey have to do ...
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« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2017, 11:45:06 PM »

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London Fire Brigade   ‏Verified account 23h
We've used specialist search dogs at #GrenfellTower. They're lighter than humans and can cover a large area quickly
 

The search dogs are wearing heat-proof boots.

I don't know why really but these pictures tipped me over and made me cry. Something about the dogs' melting sweetness and he job hey have to do ...

Hester, me too! Tears started falling as soon as I saw the pictures. Of course, this entire tragedy has me crying. I cannot imagine what the survivors and the families of the victims are going through. Praying they all receive the support they need.
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rosella
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« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2017, 12:49:18 AM »

These dogs are so, so cute! They all look eager to get on with it, wearing their little boots as well. There is a real bond between animals and humans and this shows it well.

By the way, a couple of days ago here in Australia a sheepdog had an accident and became unconscious. The farmer, his owner, gave him mouth to snout resuscitation and the dog recovered consciousness and is now OK.
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PruNordstrom

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« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2019, 04:07:04 AM »

I know this is an older topic but I thought it was worth opening again for this news.
It's from the Philadelphia Inquirer newspaper in the US. The Grenfell fire has generated far-reaching ramifications.

Quote
LONDON INFERNO
Suit Blames 2 Pa. Firms In Blaze That Killed 72
Phila. attorney files suit here, cites cladding and insulation.

June 11, 2019
By Sam Wood STAFF WRITER
Philadephia Inquirer (newspaper)

Flammable building materials used to clad a high-rise fueled the 2017 blaze that tore through London’s Grenfell Tower, turning the residential complex into a “flaming coffin” for the 72 people who died, according to a lawsuit filed Tuesday in Philadelphia against three American companies.

Philadelphia attorney Robert J. Mongeluzzi, who has in the past won multimillion-dollar settlements, filed the suit on behalf of nearly 250 survivors and families of the victims.

Named as defendants are the cladding fabricator Arconic Inc. of Pittsburgh (formerly Alcoa Inc.), insulation-maker Celotex Corp. of Malvern, and Michigan-based Whirlpool Corp., the manufacturer of the Hotpoint brand refrigerator, which local investigators said sparked the deadly inferno.

The suit, which was filed in Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas, does not specifically seek monetary damages. A jury will be called on to determine what penalty, if any, the defendants will have to pay.

The fire — which raged for 60 hours before it was extinguished — broke out in the early morning hours of June 14, 2017, on the fourth floor of the 23-story building in London’s working-class neighborhood of North Kensington. In 12 minutes, the blaze raced skyward to the 19th floor, trapping many of the building’s 600 sleeping residents within.

Fire safety engineers were stunned at how rapidly the fire spread, engulfing the building in less than an hour and preventing firefighters from reaching many people inside. Some jumped to their deaths rather than face the flames, and witnesses reported seeing small children thrown from the tower by their families in a desperate bid for survival.

A Grenfell tenant group had complained for years about the risk of a fire in the building, which was owned by the local government in the borough of Kensington and Chelsea.

The high-rise had undergone an $11 million renovation in 2016 to replace the windows and improve the thermal efficiency of the tower. According to the Telegraph of London, residents accused workers of cutting corners and refused to allow them to enter their flats.

To save £5,000 (about $6,400), building management opted for Arconic’s cheaper Reynobond PE cladding, the London newspaper reported.

Under European standards, the cheaper cladding was considered a combustible material. Despite the knowledge and what the suit describes as “an act of pure corporate greed,” Arconic supplied the cladding to the tower.

“The Arconic cladding and the Celotex could have been made flame retardant,” said Mongeluzzi, of Saltz, Mongeluzzi, Barrett & Bendesky, in an interview with The Inquirer. “These defective materials burned like gasoline and accelerated the flames.”

Because it was known to be highly flammable, the polyethylene cladding used to sheath the West London building had been banned in the United States for residential structures taller than 40 feet.

The Grenfell Tower reached a height of 220 feet.

Twelve days after the conflagration, Arconic declared it would no longer sell the cladding for use in residential towers, Mongeluzzi said.

A spokesperson for Arconic said the company “will respond to this litigation in court.”

“We express our deepest sympathy to all those affected by the 2017 Grenfell Tower fire and remain committed to supporting the public inquiry and investigations by the authorities in the UK,” said Arconic’s Rebecca Kral in an emailed statement.

Cyanide gas was purportedly released as the Celotex insulation burned. The fumes killed several people and caused lasting injuries in many of the survivors, said cocounsel Jeffrey Goodman of SMBB.

Celotex, which also withdrew its product from the market after the fire, told the BBC it was “considering its position” following the legal action.

Cocounsel Mark DiCello, of Cleveland-based DiCello Levitt, estimated the discovery process and interview could require more than 2½ years before the case is heard in court.

One of the London victims issued a statement as the suit was filed.

“I lived very happily with my wife and two young daughters on the 21st floor of the 23-floor tower. The fire took everything from us, “ said Marcio Gomes, 39, who wrapped his family in wet towels and led them out of the roaring inferno.

“My wife was 7-months pregnant when the smoke and cyanide killed our son before he was born into this world. It was all completely avoidable,” Gomes said. “It should never have happened. It should never happen again to anyone, anywhere, anytime.”

Source: www.inquirer.com/business/law/london-grenfell-highrise-tower-fire-philadelphia-lawyer-mongeluzzi-fatal-law-20190611.html

Note this statement: "Because it was known to be highly flammable, the polyethylene cladding used to sheath the West London building had been banned in the United States for residential structures taller than 40 feet."
In the US 40 feet is a four-storey building which is accessible by fire equipment ladders and lifts. However, there are much taller buildings (more than 20 storeys) in the US that do have this cladding. The cost to remove and replace the cladding would be very expensive. Many of the taller buildings are owned under condominium association laws and rules.  (Condominuims are apartments owned individually and owners pay for maintenance and upkeep of the building and grounds.) The expense would fall to individual owners, often exceeding the value of their apartments.

For emphasis: This lawsuit could take  "more than 2½ years before the case is heard in court."
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