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Author Topic: Winter Olympics  (Read 35913 times)
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pixiecat
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« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 04:35:14 AM »

I love the Olympics as well but I'm honestly not thrilled with its location this time around. Sorry not sorry but the dog meat trade/festivals disgust me on levels I can't even explain.

It's the most disgusting thing I've learned and looked into years ago, and it's not because people are starving and they have to turn to this, but because it supposedly brings luck. Korea is No. 1 dog meat trader, with Northern India right behind them.

Look what Russia did once it was decided to have the Winter Olympics there, they culled hundrets of stray dogs to make the Olympic village and neighbouring areas clean and more civilized. The biggest sign of protest would be for countries not to send their participants, but that's not going to happen....so everthing will stay the same.

To few people are outraged about that to change a nasty behaviour.

Maybe the spotlight on the country for the Olympics will help to raise awareness of this and maybe it will lead to a ban.  I won't hold my breath, but you never know.
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Kaiserin

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« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 10:18:19 PM »

In my opinion, Olympic Games were created for "the youth of the world to reunite in peaceful competition through sport".
That's all that it should be, nothing more and nothing less.
(Sadly, this honourable leitmotif has been compromised several times already in the past 122 years, either by hosting countries or by (non-)participating countries.)

I may disgust some of the traditions, practices, or politics of a hosting country, but in my opinion, the Games should not be compromised by boycott for political or general protest reasons. I do remember the two "big boycotts" in 1980 / 1984, during cold war, which, at the end of the day, were only sad for those participating, as they could not compete with ALL of their fellow discipline athletes, and for those kept home, who trained for nothing and were maybe already too old to compete in the next games. The political background/reason of the boycotts was pretty clear anyhow, and not sending athletes to LA/Moscow did in no way contribute to a change of the matter.

pixie is right that accompanying TV docu about the hosting country may raise awareness for certain issues, which is a good thing,
but I would not find it helpful for the cause (here the dog meat trading) to keep athletes at home for protest. It's imho just not the right forum / way to argue.
It would just kinda "punish" the athletes who train years for their ticket to compete, and save no single dogs' live anyway.

I wonder whether North Korea will again boykott these Games, as they did 1988 in Seoul already. Especially in these turbulent times, sending the North Korean team south would be a strong signal that sports has absolutely NO connection to politics, and that the Games are what their founder wanted them to be: peaceful reunion to compete in sports.
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PeDe
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« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 11:11:14 PM »

Generally, I agree with you about the athletes, but if a boykott is is something that can have big influence, I'm all for a it.

And it is nothing new:

1964 Australia was banned to attend the Olympics for sporting links with South Africa. The International Olympic Committee's refusal to ban New Zealand, whose rugby team is currently touring South Africa, has resulted in the boycott.

1964 South Africa has been banned from the Olympics for its refusal to condemn apartheid.

1980 Summer Olympics. 1980 Summer Olympics boycott: U.S. President Jimmy Carter issued a boycott of the games to protest the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, as the Games were held in Moscow, the capital of the Soviet Union. Many nations refused to participate in the Games.

1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles was boykotted, after the U.S.-led boycott of the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow. The boycott involved 14 Eastern Bloc countries and allies, led by the Soviet Union, which initiated the boycott on May 8, 1984.

It's already politicized, and really always has been. Especially after WWII.

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Kaiserin

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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2017, 12:17:10 AM »

Right, it is nothing new (sadly).

But did any of the above mentioned boycotts really had an influence on the political situation they were aimed at ?

Apartheid finally finished in 1992.
The Russians finally left Afghanistan in 1989.
Cold War ended 1991 (while I believe Moscow led boycott of 1984 LA was more or less "revenge" for 1980, not really for the causes they mentioned or the police controversy ...) - years, even decades after.

Such things are to be solved by diplomatic efforts or by economical measures (embargos) - by things which "hurt" the government / the state finances, or, as in ivory trade, dog meat etc., those individuals who earn on it.

I hope for peaceful Games in South Korea, uninfluenced by the political tension in the region, by religious beliefs or different ways of living/traditions.
Sports is something that can bring out the best in Nations, and that's what I love such Championships for.
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PeDe
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2017, 01:12:45 AM »

^^ you are right nothing changed right after the boykott.....just because you make a statement, doesn't mean that something will change in an instant.

That doesn't happen in someone's personal life, in business, in certainly not in politics. I hardly ever have encountered a situation - especially in politics - where a statement would change somthing immediatelly. But that doesn't mean that one cannot stand up for something. Sometimes actions have to do with personal integrity, and a country's integrity.

Therefore, we have to agree to disagree one some points.

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Ellie

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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2017, 10:12:13 PM »

And there is talk the IOC will ban Russia for competing due to not complying with drug testing and all the corruption that has been found out in the last year or two (unsurprisingly).
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pixiecat
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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2017, 08:47:19 PM »

And there is talk the IOC will ban Russia for competing due to not complying with drug testing and all the corruption that has been found out in the last year or two (unsurprisingly).

Anybody who cheats should be banned.  That said, I'll be shocked if they actually do follow through with this.
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Duchess of Verona

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« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2017, 02:26:33 AM »

It will be interesting if they do, that's for sure. Russia has had a domination in figure skating which is the single largest in international sports. For 12 straight Olympics, Russia won the gold in pairs skating. 7 of those gold medalists were trained by one coach, Tamara Moskvina. At 2 of those games, not only did she train the gold medalists, but also the silver medalists. Her former pairs partner Alexei Mishin is also a great coach, mostly for singles skaters. Urmanov,  Yagudin, Plushenko and Tuktemysheva were trained by him.
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Ellie

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« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2017, 03:43:48 AM »

It'll be interesting for sure considering the McLaren report wrongly suggested doping of Sotnikova (who should not have won in Sochi imo). A friend of mine who is a skater and an Olympian told me that the atmosphere at Sochi was awful. If you were not Russian they did not care. Booing, no support for non Russians.. Trrible crowds and really did a number on some of the athletes I think mentally. Medvedeva is a lock for the podium and perhaps gold but she's not a robot as she showed last week in Japan with falls (and overscoring).

No Russians won't happen I doubt. They won't comply with WADA standards but that's never stopped them or anyone else, the IOC will just let it slide.

Nice to see another skating fan (I skate and so does my kid!).
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Duchess of Verona

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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2017, 04:50:28 PM »

Oh, I'm the president of our local FS club. My daughter skated Intermediate last season and hopefully will move up to Novice for next year. She is in an all russian program. Both her coach and choreographer called Sotnikova before Sochi. There was more than a little 'home cooking' at that olympics.
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Ellie

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« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2017, 04:05:37 AM »

That's great! My son isn't in Basic Skills yet, they don't have USFS at our rink, just ISI. He loves it and wants to be an ice dancer. We'll see, haha.

Yes, Sotnikova was so overscored.  On the podium i was fine with but first place, hell no. Yuna and Carolina both were completely robbed.
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Duchess of Verona

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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2017, 02:23:05 AM »

With the Russians, the bench is so deep that when whatever tiny ballerina skater hits puberty or injury (Lipnitskaya, Tuktemysheva) there are 500 waiting in line. Our friend Oksana Baiul told me that in Russia, to be considered a child worth consideration of a top coach, you had all 5 triples by the time you were 9. Lipnitskaya is done. Tuktemysheva has battled injury and her curvy body (the puberty monster does eat little ballerinas) and came back 2 seasons ago to win 5 Grands Prix and Worlds and then got hurt again. Her  outing this year was disastrous. But she can bring the triple axel and show up cold and win. There is a lady now training the quad toe loop for competition, which will move the goal posts for sure.

I am so happy your son is a skater. The mental decipline involved will help him academically too. He will really enjoy it. The competition at the lower levels is such that any decent boy will go home with a medal. Where there are 5 flights of Preliminary well balanced for girls, there will be 5 boys in one flight. Not to mention lots of girls! Is your son tall or he just feels the dance skating more? The Shibutanis live in the next town over. Brooklee Han used to train at our rink before they moved to TX as did Ksenia Makarova when she was the reigning Russian champion. What part of the country are you in?
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Ellie

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« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2017, 03:03:38 AM »

We've met the Shibs before, my son I think wants to dance just because of the pretty girls.  Laughing He loves Ashley Wagner and called her 'Pretty Ashley' from about the time he was two and watched Sochi! I've met Ashley more than a few times, she calls him her tiniest fan! Haha. He's excited about dancing with another girl, he's only five! He can barely skate properly, but we're working on it. He's got great balance and body awareness but all I care about is that he enjoys it. He's not very sporty, he likes skating, golf and he's also doing gymnastics in an all boys class which is good for him. We're in the LA area, so there's a dearth of rinks. As a girl I skated where Scott Hamilton would sometimes, in Oxnard, and I got to be in the rink's show a lot with him! He's moved to TN though, and that rink is closed. Sad I know quite a lot of skaters between once doing websites for them and just skating myself as a hobby. In college I skated with Sasha Cohen who was just fooling around and exercising as it was before she decided to come back for the 2010 Olympics, she was such a nice, intelligent person to talk to.

I only got up to doubles and am trying to work my way back up there but I had such poor fundamentals thanks to coaches not really taking the time. I see that as a major issue for the pre-IJS skaters, with the flutzing, lipping, shallow edges, no use of knees to get speed; so instead of doing jumps and spins I'm really working on the essentials instead. It's easier as an adult to have that discipline, as a child I hated it!

My heart breaks for Julia and Gracie with their issues. This sport chews you up and spits you out.
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Duchess of Verona

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« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2017, 03:24:28 PM »

How far are you from El Segundo? The Toyota center has loads of Freestyle ice. And fabulous coaches. The immortal Frank Carroll does a skating camp there every summer.
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Ellie

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« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2017, 05:59:31 PM »

Technically under thirty minutes but with traffic it can be over an hour. Typical LA!
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