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Author Topic: The Crown, season II  (Read 18183 times)
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luvcharles

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« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2017, 11:33:33 PM »

Churchill was first and foremost a support of 'the monarch' not the individual necessarily. He had been on good terms with Edward VII throughout his life and supportive of him as PoW and King simply because he was the PoW and then the King. He wasn't 'in the government' in 1936 but a backbencher and so wasn't fully aware of everything that was happening or not happening around the King and the deteriorating relationship between the King and the government to the point of a virtual total lack of trust on both sides. When the idea of abdication was floated Churchill, and his almost worshipful reverence for 'the monarchy' was such that he believed Edward should call their bluff, get crowned and then marry Wallis and see how they would react. Edward realised that that would not be allowed to happen and so left.

When George VI had to send for Churchill in May 1940 to be PM he wasn't too keen as he didn't trust Winston due to his support for his brother but he soon came to realise that Churchill's support was for the position more so than the individual and they ended up becoming very good friends. By then Churchill knew more about what had been the real issues around Edward VIII and it was Churchill that shoots him off to the Bahamas as Governor so he could do no harm to Britain during the war.

Churchill did believe that Edward should have been given an allowance that meant he could live a comfortable lifestyle that would keep him out of the public eye and so not be an embarrassment but by cutting the allowance the Windsor's had to virtually 'sell themselves' to live in a standard to which they were expected to live. He believed, rightly or wrongly, that an appropriate allowance would have seen them live a lower profile lifestyle.

After WWII he had very little contact with Edward as his loyalty was to The Crown and so to George and then to Elizabeth rather than the former King. Any advice he gave to either side was based totally on what was best for the British monarchy and not the individuals within it.
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« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2017, 04:29:59 AM »

In the Crown, it is hinted that Churchill supported the King Edward, the one who abdicated to stay on. I saw a movie recently where Churchill who is not in power then strongly asks him to stay as he will be a good king and the people like him. Churchill also seems appalled that the allowance is cut off to the King after QEII's father's death ? What was Churchill's relationship with King Edward before WWII  and after ?

Well considering that Edward was a Nazi sympathiser and traitor, I doubt whether Churchill would have objected to his allowance being cut off in the 1950s ...
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smf3000

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« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2017, 05:37:53 AM »

I loved the first season  , but am not sure about watching this one  Thinking

I just don't want to see Prince Philip cheat on the Queen  Cry  I'd like to pretend and live in a magic fairy land where someone, somewhere, has a marriage free of betrayal  Thumb up

Are there episodes I should/could skip?  

(And yes, I am asking for help maintaining a delusional safe space  Angel Here's to hypocrisy!  Champagne)
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luvcharles

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« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2017, 05:56:39 AM »

The series doesn't show Philip cheating on the Queen. There are implications based on the rumours that have been around for the past 60 years but nothing more than that. We don't see Philip with a woman in a compromising position or anything like that - just some suggestions that the crew on the trip around the Southern Hemisphere in 1956 - 57 all cheated with the local woman depending on how you wish to interpret a letter or two allegedly written by Parker to friends back in the UK.

I found the historical inaccuracies so bad this time around that it was almost unwatchable.

If you want to learn the history of these people read a range of biographies and watch a range of well-researched documentaries. If you want to watch a piece of fluffy fiction based on the lives of real people then watch this (or Victoria - or both - both equally bad with regard to the historical accuracy but brilliantly acted and the settings and costumes are great).
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Hester
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« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2017, 06:09:19 AM »

The series doesn't show Philip cheating on the Queen. There are implications based on the rumours that have been around for the past 60 years but nothing more than that. We don't see Philip with a woman in a compromising position or anything like that - just some suggestions that the crew on the trip around the Southern Hemisphere in 1956 - 57 all cheated with the local woman depending on how you wish to interpret a letter or two allegedly written by Parker to friends back in the UK.

I found the historical inaccuracies so bad this time around that it was almost unwatchable.

If you want to learn the history of these people read a range of biographies and watch a range of well-researched documentaries. If you want to watch a piece of fluffy fiction based on the lives of real people then watch this (or Victoria - or both - both equally bad with regard to the historical accuracy but brilliantly acted and the settings and costumes are great).

I assure you the stories are true. I know a woman in Southern New South Wales who was at the races in Australia during one of Prince Philip's visits in the 1970s. She was in her late thirties at the time.  One of Philip's retainers approached her across the room and handed her a note which said that the prince would like to meet her. I don't know whether there were further instructions on the note, but she said there was no mistaking the intention! If he had wanted to simply meet her, he could have said hello at the event.
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luvcharles

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« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2017, 07:57:08 AM »

There are hundreds of these stories but not one woman has ever publicly admitted any such thing happened. Being handed a note isn't proof positive of infidelity - only a hint that something may have happened and there are lots of those - hints etc. Actually at these events he can't simply 'say hello'. Every person they meet is already scrutinised and checked. Anyone they may wish to meet later has to be vetted and that means they have to let their staff know which is part of the procedure being followed here. Had she said 'yes' there would have been a security check about her to see how close she would be allowed to get to him. Most of those events then were so tightly controlled there was no time for any casual 'hellos' at all.

Whether Philip cheated is simply a matter for what people want to believe as there is no absolute proof. A letter to a woman is not proof. We know he enjoys spending time with pretty women. He may have simply sent a letter across the room because he wanted to simply talk to her rather than go any further.

He probably did cheat but there is no absolute proof.

He was also probably not the only one in that marriage to cheat as there are similar rumours about The Queen with some suggestions that neither Andrew nor Edward are Philip's and that they also have different fathers. Again - no proof - just rumours.
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christina01
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« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2017, 10:24:48 AM »

There are hundreds of these stories but not one woman has ever publicly admitted any such thing happened. Being handed a note isn't proof positive of infidelity - only a hint that something may have happened and there are lots of those - hints etc. Actually at these events he can't simply 'say hello'. Every person they meet is already scrutinised and checked. Anyone they may wish to meet later has to be vetted and that means they have to let their staff know which is part of the procedure being followed here. Had she said 'yes' there would have been a security check about her to see how close she would be allowed to get to him. Most of those events then were so tightly controlled there was no time for any casual 'hellos' at all.

Whether Philip cheated is simply a matter for what people want to believe as there is no absolute proof. A letter to a woman is not proof. We know he enjoys spending time with pretty women. He may have simply sent a letter across the room because he wanted to simply talk to her rather than go any further.

He probably did cheat but there is no absolute proof.

He was also probably not the only one in that marriage to cheat as there are similar rumours about The Queen with some suggestions that neither Andrew nor Edward are Philip's and that they also have different fathers. Again - no proof - just rumours.
I heard rumours that Andrew didn't belong to Phillip, but haven't heard anything about Edward. If you believe series 2, then the queen was pretty well neglected by Phillip during her third pregnancy, and probably prior.
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« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2017, 05:55:27 PM »

Thanks for answering my questions about Churchill and the Duke of Windsor, luvCharles especially.
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NoviceDisher
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« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2017, 06:13:21 PM »

I loved the first season  , but am not sure about watching this one  Thinking

I just don't want to see Prince Philip cheat on the Queen  Cry  I'd like to pretend and live in a magic fairy land where someone, somewhere, has a marriage free of betrayal  Thumb up

Are there episodes I should/could skip?  

(And yes, I am asking for help maintaining a delusional safe space  Angel Here's to hypocrisy!  Champagne)

IDK how true this is, but in the final episode of S2, they have a conversation about their relationship. The Queen says she understands if Philip has to be "out" occasionally in order to be "in". She also shows him some photo of a Russian ballerina she found in his bag. Philip says she is the only one who has made an art form of looking aside, but he does not want her to look aside. He is with her not because she gives him a title, but because he loves her. His job is her and he is in. It is a very sweet episode for me.

Personally speaking though I have barely any knowledge of the BRF, I have suspected the Queen has looked aside just based on the story of Prince Charles and Princess Diana where it seems to be almost something that is tradition. But after seeing the Crown I don't think so. The Queen wants a happy marriage and she constantly battles people on DOE's behalf even her own mother, Churchill, advisors. The Queen comes across as obsessed with DOE. IDK if he cheated, but they seem to have made their priority of their relationship the Queen especially. Their relationship seems hard won and I think their marriage especially in the later years was happy.  So I would suggest seeing the whole series.

The relationship that is most troubling is Princess Margaret. I cannot believe they created a fuss for a divorced man. But Captain Townsend seemed like he would have been a good husband. The Palace and the Queen knew about Princess Margaret's husband being bi, having threesomes even before marriage per the Crown. IDK how they thought such a man and marriage would not blow up in their face.
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Countess of Cows

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« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2017, 01:47:08 AM »

I've enjoyed The Crown very much.  I come away feeling sorry for Charles, loathing the DOE,  I can't believe Margaret was worse than I could imagine and not understanding the Queen at all  Thinking

I can't wait for next season. 

JMO Snowdon has all the best lines in the whole dang series  Wink
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« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2017, 02:54:13 AM »

I just don't want to see Prince Philip cheat on the Queen  Cry  I'd like to pretend and live in a magic fairy land where someone, somewhere, has a marriage free of betrayal  Thumb up


Their relationship seems hard won and I think their marriage especially in the later years was happy.  So I would suggest seeing the whole series.
 

Thanks LuvCharles  Star, NoviceDisher  Beer

I will now proceed to binge watch.
*gathers necessary supply of: Pizza (check), boyfriend (check), buckets of diet coke (check check)* 
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Princess Jasmine

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« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2017, 12:56:55 PM »

Just finished!

I am gutted, GUTTED! to read there will be new actors. I was really hoping to see more of Vanessa Kirby. And was curious about the makeup skills. I am very anal about new actors in old roles.

I LOVED Matt as Philip. Indeed, he reminds me of Harry. Am curious who will take his role now, as Matt has a very perculiar face.

The fact that Philip cheating ways were highlighted didn't bother me. They both explained that. Liz is Phils job. And Liz didn't mind to look the other way. They had a loving relationship.

Wat bugged me was how they treated Mrs Parker. That her damn lawyer was not to be trusted. How people frowned upon divorce. But lived a hedonistic lifestyle themselves.

And I agree with the casting of JFK and Jackie O. That made no sense. At all.

How long do we have to wait for season 3?

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« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2017, 01:11:43 PM »

We will have to wait another year. Season 3 is expected to premier in December 2018.

I'll miss Claire Foy but I'm quite excited to see Olivia taking QEII role. It's a new perpective to a different period of the Queen's life imo. Matt Smith was amazing as Philip imo. Their scene discussing their marriage on the final episode was Star Star

The actors who played young Charles and young Philip in "Paterfamilias" were the MVPs of S2. Damn! They brought me to tears Cry Cry Cry
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Princess Jasmine

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« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2017, 01:18:31 PM »

Yes! Young Philip made me cry too. Very convincing. Glad he had uncle Dickie in his life.
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NoviceDisher
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« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2017, 11:16:45 PM »

The surprising thing for me how sympathetic I felt for most characters at various points.

1. The Queen in the episode Hyde Park Corner when Queen Mary deeply curtseys to her. Claire Foy has such a lost, shocked expression on her face that it has finally sunk in that she is Queen after her grandmother whom she curtseys her whole life now does it to her.
2. The Queen Mother when she talks about loss in Scotland. Loss of a husband, a home, crown, responsibilities. I always thought of her as being tone deaf. But looking at her as a relatively young widow and the loss she must have felt humanized her. I still think she was out of touch and not a very nice person because of what she was like to DOE for instance but I felt a bit sorry for her.
3. Princess Margaret. I don't think she is a nice person at all, but her struggle to fit in and the loss she must have felt of father, Peter made me more sympathetic to her.
4. DOE most of all. I never particularly cared for him because I've of his gaffes and even the occasional obnoxious comments. But when I saw how much he overcame and what a horrible childhood he had added to how horrible the palace officials and the QM treated him, I came away admiring him for the life he build for himself. He is so accomplished certainly more so than the Queen. He is the one I came away admiring most of all and it is mostly due to Matt Smith who portrayed his struggle well.

I did not like two characters. Lord Mountbatten, I just did not find him likable. Most of all I am surprised at my reaction to Prince Charles. I've always considered him spoilt, out of touch and living in his own world. But the Crown reiterated all that as a child, he comes across as such a wimpy, non motivated child indulged by everyone and a huge disappointment to his parents especially DOE. Instead of feeling sorry for Prince Charles I felt sorry for the DOE and the Crown. Prince Charles has spent a lifetime cultivating his interests and working for a place so I give all credit to him. But the child Prince Charles in the Crown comes across as George does now to me. Not suitable to be heir, quite annoying and his sister would be better. I still think Princess Anne would have been a  better heir and so would Charlotte be than Prince Charles and George respectively. I am surprised the Crown reiterated that for me.
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