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Author Topic: Just some random speculation about Mary's twins  (Read 6996 times)
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Hester
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« on: October 06, 2018, 12:55:01 AM »

I remember there was some speculation about whether Mary's twins were evidence of IVF, given that she had no history of twins in her family.

Normally IVF twins are identical, so IF Mary's twins were the result of IVF, that would actually mean that she had had two embryos implanted  - which is the only way to get fraternal twins via IVF. Which raises the question: if fertility treatment was involved, why would a top-notch fertility team implant TWO embryos in a woman who already has two children?

Note that this is sheer speculation, but it seems that IF the twins weren't naturally conceived, the specialists didn't quite follow best practice. Twin births are always risky, and implanting two embryos generally isn't regarded as the safest option for mum.

On balance, it would seem they are more likely to have been naturally conceived.
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emtishell

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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 03:38:36 AM »

I remember there was some speculation about whether Mary's twins were evidence of IVF, given that she had no history of twins in her family.

Normally IVF twins are identical, so IF Mary's twins were the result of IVF, that would actually mean that she had had two embryos implanted  - which is the only way to get fraternal twins via IVF. Which raises the question: if fertility treatment was involved, why would a top-notch fertility team implant TWO embryos in a woman who already has two children?

Note that this is sheer speculation, but it seems that IF the twins weren't naturally conceived, the specialists didn't quite follow best practice. Twin births are always risky, and implanting two embryos generally isn't regarded as the safest option for mum.

On balance, it would seem they are more likely to have been naturally conceived.

Actually, IVF twins are more likely to be fraternal..... they ALWAYS implant more than one embryo to increase the chances of at least one sticking (and as my friend was told, the others provide “nourishment”  Nerves - she had 5 embryos left, and they implanted all 5 in a last ditch attempt..... two stuck, but then she lost one.... 13 years and many thousands of dollars for one precious little boy!). Where I live (Perth, Western Australia) has world-leading IVF researchers, and there was a period during the 90s when we were having such a rush on mulitple births (3, 4 and 5!) that they made the decision to restrict the amount of embryos implanted to 3, because the hospital (there is only one that is equipped to handle premmies) couldn’t cope.

Frat twins can occur even if there is no family history, especially in older women (remember anyone over 35 is classed as a “geriatric pregnancy”) as toward the end of a woman’s fertility they can tend to “throw” 2 eggs at a time!

She may have had some sort of fertility treatment (taking fertility hormones can also increase the chances of multiples) but I don’t buy into the conspiracy theory that she did any of this behind Fred’s back (not that you were suggesting that, but I have heard it speculated before).

EDIT - just had a little search, and it appears that it is only recently that they have changed the best practice to single embyro transfer. Given the DERF twins age, it is likely (if they are, in fact, IVF) they were conceived using the older protocol.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 03:45:46 AM by emtishell » Logged
Hester
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2018, 04:05:38 AM »

Ah! Thanks for your input emtishell .. interesting!
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lizzie78

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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 07:15:00 AM »

I have always heard that they implant more than one embryo so there's more chance of pregnancy too...
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karma chamelion

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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 08:25:03 AM »

I have always heard that they implant more than one embryo so there's more chance of pregnancy too...

Yes, me too. In fact I think it's evidence of IVF that Albert & Charlene's twins are fraternal.

Anyone remember Octomom? Now that was definitely not best practice.
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 01:08:00 PM »

The circumstances surrounding the miracle twin's conception and months afterwards were certainly .... interesting.

Many believed at the time that Mary was on her way out of the DRF and then - boom - pregnant again.

Queen Daisy celebrated her 70th birthday end of April 2010, that was when Fred gave a speech and Mosh came running and smothered kisses all over his face, much to Fred's embarrassment and Maxima's amusement.

Then, end of July 2010 came the pregnancy announcement at Graasten. Fred'l looks have gone downhill since then.

Then Mary flew off to Australia alone to celebrate Amber's 40th, not wearing her wedding or engagement rings.

(Don't remember what happened at Christmas in 2010, did they celebrate with Daisy?).

Then before the twin's christening, Fred was caught with the blonde ....

Not sure if she used IVF but Mary was on a mission in 2010. I wouldn't be surprised if she took all necessary measures for another pregnancy and when Fred had a weak moment, she lucked out ... again.  
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 01:15:51 PM by Hermione » Logged
Elissa

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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 01:13:14 PM »



Not sure if she used IVF but Mary was on a mission in 2010. I wouldn't be surprised if she took all necessary measures for another pregnancy and when Fred had a weak moment, she lucked out ... again. 



 

I believe she took some fertility medecine like Clomid ( because there is a higher rate of twin pregnancies when taking it ) and went for it when Fred was drunk or too weak.

Frederik looked like death warmed over during the whole pregnancy. Not exactly the reaction of a man in love about to welcome two bundles of joy into his life.
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Harley
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2018, 01:56:30 PM »

Speaking from personal experience, “they” don’t always transfer two blastocysts at a time. At least not in Denmark. It may be done (if multiple attempts at pregnancy have been made with no success) but it’s not the standard as it’s not risk free to carry twins. For instance, twins are more likely to be preemies than single child pregnancies. But it IS done, if, for instance, previous attempts with IVF/ICSI haven’t been successful or there’s a medical reason for it. But the doctors definitely don’t aim for twins.

Considering they already had Christian and Isabella at that point, she probably - at the max - used pergotime pills (clomid) or a similar brand, which is very light stimulation and tends to make two-three eggs ready instead of just the one.

But twins, identical and fraternal, happen spontaneously as well. Especially if the mother is “older”.

I don’t think the twins were conceived through medical help. And, tbh, I also don’t really care.

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Maria
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2018, 01:58:53 PM »



Not sure if she used IVF but Mary was on a mission in 2010. I wouldn't be surprised if she took all necessary measures for another pregnancy and when Fred had a weak moment, she lucked out ... again.  

I believe she took some fertility medecine like Clomid ( because there is a higher rate of twin pregnancies when taking it ) and went for it when Fred was drunk or too weak.

Frederik looked like death warmed over during the whole pregnancy. Not exactly the reaction of a man in love about to welcome two bundles of joy into his life.

I think this is likely too.

IIRC Marie accidentally slipped when asked about the pregnancy and said they’d been trying for a while. I think it’s likely they (or at least Mary) got some help after a while. I also think it’s very possible that they had different attitudes to how to approach the situation. Fred has one sibling and seemed very content with their family at the time. I think it’s possible he had an “okay, it didn’t work out but we have two lovely kids so it’s all good” attitude where Mary, coming from a family of four siblings possibly really wanted another child and therefore wanted to go further to have one. Twins are often a surprise. It’s totally possible that the seemingly shocked faces we felt we saw was more about worry, Idk. F&M rarely look happy to me so it’s hard to be objective here.
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EstellesBows

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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2018, 02:06:33 PM »



Not sure if she used IVF but Mary was on a mission in 2010. I wouldn't be surprised if she took all necessary measures for another pregnancy and when Fred had a weak moment, she lucked out ... again. 



 

I believe she took some fertility medecine like Clomid ( because there is a higher rate of twin pregnancies when taking it ) and went for it when Fred was drunk or too weak.

Frederik looked like death warmed over during the whole pregnancy. Not exactly the reaction of a man in love about to welcome two bundles of joy into his life.

Clomid taken behind Frodo's back has always been my theory.

IMO, there is no way Derf wanted another kid. The heir and the spare had been produced and he was so close to Izzy being old enough that he could leave Mosh without being the biggest asshole in Denmark. No way would he have done IVF.

Mosh knew she was in danger and getting pregnant was how to make him stay. So I think she took Clomid to increase her chances of hooking him with another pregnancy - and lucked out and got twins.
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2018, 02:34:48 PM »

Even if Mary planned the pregnancy as a way to remain in the marriage, the twins now are old enough to understand a possible divorce. They can always get a divorce, if one of them decides to do so.
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Harley
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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2018, 02:57:02 PM »

Mr Harley had to sign a piece of paper every time we started on a new kind of treatment saying that he claimed paternity over any child the treatment might result in. That went for both IUI and IVF/ICSI treatment.

I don’t think Derf was too keen on more babies but I also don’t think they were the result of IUI or IVF/ICSI. Or Clomid taken without Frederik knowing. Legally, it’s not an option in Denmark.



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Elissa

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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2018, 02:57:45 PM »

As long as Fred needs her to hide his very low time workload, I can't see any divorce happening.

Only if Fred really meets someone else he really falls in love with and has a wake-up call, it's a possibility.

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anastasia beaverhausen

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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2018, 03:29:27 PM »

As long as Fred needs her to hide his very low time workload, I can't see any divorce happening.

Only if Fred really meets someone else he really falls in love with and has a wake-up call, it's a possibility.



Even if he did, I just cannot envision him doing anything about it. He is the classic “let life just happen to you” personality.

I also never really understood how having four children would make Fred stay more than two would. If he had enough motivation to leave (doubtful) more kids would’t stop him. My guess was always that Marge ordered him to stay because she didn’t want another divorce in the family.
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Elissa

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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2018, 03:33:55 PM »

As long as Fred needs her to hide his very low time workload, I can't see any divorce happening.

Only if Fred really meets someone else he really falls in love with and has a wake-up call, it's a possibility.



Even if he did, I just cannot envision him doing anything about it. He is the classic “let life just happen to you” personality.



You are right..it would take someone very motivated to become his second wife for him to leave Mosh. That would mean a woman even more ambitious and calculating than her.  Sad Not certain Fred would gain anything in the end.
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