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Author Topic: Monaco Aristocracy  (Read 3164 times)
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tsarinya

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« on: October 18, 2018, 10:02:21 PM »

Hey - Iíve never posted here before so I hope Iím doing it right.

This may sound like a daft question but I have been thinking about it for a few days.

Like in the UK you have noble Dukes, Earls, Barons, Lords etc that have no family relation to the Windsors, do you have that in Monaco?
For example is there a Duke of X who has no blood connection to the Grimaldis?
Would it be because Monaco is so small or something else?

Again, sorry if a silly question but I thought Iíd ask it as you all seem so knowledgable Smiley

Thank you
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schmichaelira
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2018, 05:12:51 AM »

Hey - Iíve never posted here before so I hope Iím doing it right.

This may sound like a daft question but I have been thinking about it for a few days.

Like in the UK you have noble Dukes, Earls, Barons, Lords etc that have no family relation to the Windsors, do you have that in Monaco?
For example is there a Duke of X who has no blood connection to the Grimaldis?
Would it be because Monaco is so small or something else?

Again, sorry if a silly question but I thought Iíd ask it as you all seem so knowledgable Smiley

Thank you

There is not an aristocracy in the style of the sort you're thinking of, like British Dukes, Marquesses, Earls, Viscounts, Barons, baronets, etc. However, there are titles in Monaco, a lot of them foreign titles and defunct titles. The Prince of Monaco holds several titles under his name and typically gives members of his family the privilege of using them. For example, the Prince is also Baron de Massy. Prince Rainier's sister, Antoinette, used the style of Baronne (Baroness) de Massy, and her children also use it today. Prince Albert's daughter Gabriella uses "Comtesse de CarladŤs" (Comte de CarladŤs) is another of the Prince's titles. The most superior title under the Prince, of course, belongs to his heir apparent, Jacques: Hereditary Prince and Marquis des Baux. Princess Stephanie uses Comtesse (Countess) de Polignac, which comes from Rainier's father.
The Prince also confers Orders on citizens of Monaco:  Order of St. Charles, Order of Grimaldi, Order of cultural merit....
There are the "old" families in Monaco, the people who have been around the Prince for generations, and typically live in Monaco-ville, the oldest and in my opinion most beautiful part of the nation. Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2018, 03:06:52 PM »

Most of the titles are more likely from the French system.  France had several principalities in its rolls of nobility, like Rohan.
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schmichaelira
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« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2018, 05:21:01 AM »

And most of the titles are courtesy only.
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tsarinya

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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2018, 11:54:25 AM »

Thank you for the replies everyone! It makes a lot more sense now.
Curious that I havenít found anyone with a title who wasnít related to the Grimaldis somehow. Is that their system there? You have to have a family relation to get one?
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tsarinya

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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2018, 03:09:27 PM »

Also, if Gabriella was to marry a commoner, do you think her father or brother will give the groom a title? Iím surprised that Rainier didnít give titles to Carolineís first husband.
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Principessa

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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2018, 03:28:14 PM »

Also, if Gabriella was to marry a commoner, do you think her father or brother will give the groom a title? Iím surprised that Rainier didnít give titles to Carolineís first husband.

You mean Philippe Junot or Caroline's 2nd husband Stefano Casiraghi?
If I understood it correct Grace and Rainier weren't happy with Caroline's first marriage to Philippe Junot. But she was determined.
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tsarinya

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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2018, 12:51:12 AM »

Also, if Gabriella was to marry a commoner, do you think her father or brother will give the groom a title? Iím surprised that Rainier didnít give titles to Carolineís first husband.

You mean Philippe Junot or Caroline's 2nd husband Stefano Casiraghi?
If I understood it correct Grace and Rainier weren't happy with Caroline's first marriage to Philippe Junot. But she was determined.

Oh I didnít realise that they werenít happy with the marriage. Maybe thatís why no titles were given? I always thought it was Stefano that wasnít liked too well.
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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2018, 11:22:19 PM »

Also, if Gabriella was to marry a commoner, do you think her father or brother will give the groom a title? Iím surprised that Rainier didnít give titles to Carolineís first husband.

You mean Philippe Junot or Caroline's 2nd husband Stefano Casiraghi?
If I understood it correct Grace and Rainier weren't happy with Caroline's first marriage to Philippe Junot. But she was determined.

Oh I didnít realise that they werenít happy with the marriage. Maybe thatís why no titles were given? I always thought it was Stefano that wasnít liked too well.

Caroline (23 January 1957) was/is married 3 times

1. Philippe Junot (19 april 1940)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Junot
A French banker,about 17 years older then Caroline, and at the time considered a playboy. They marry in june 1978 when Caroline and Philippe are respectively 21 and 38 years old. As I always have understod Caroline's mother princess Gracia was worried about this marriage.

The couple divorced, childless, on 9 October 1980. In 1992, the Roman Catholic Church granted the princess a canonical declaration of nullity


2. Stefano Casiraghi (8 September 1960 Ė 3 October 1990)
An Italian speedboat racer, socialite, and businessman. On 29 December 1983 in Monaco, he and Caroline married in a civil ceremony in the Hall of Mirrors of the Monegasque Princely Palace. They were not able to have a Catholic ceremony because Caroline had been divorced from Philippe Junot, and an annulment had not yet been obtained. It was said Caroline was already 3 months pegnant at the time of the wedding.

According to some media:
Her father, Prince Rainier III was by all accounts initially suspicious of his new son-in-law as were many others. The Italian papers called Casiraghi "Carolino" and portrayed him as a mere plaything for his wife


The couple had three children: Andrea (born 8 June 1984), Charlotte (born 3 August 1986), and Pierre (born 5 September 1987).

Casiraghi was killed in an offshore powerboat racing accident off the coast of Monaco near Cap Ferrat on 3 October 1990 while defending his world offshore title. He was 30 years old and had planned to retire after the race.


3. Prince Ernst August of Hanover (26 february 1954)
It was said Caroline's mother princess Grace had hopes for Caroline to marry Ernst August when they were younger. But both went on with their lives without something happened. Ernst August married Swiss heiress Chantal Hochuli in 1981. Caroline had been friends with Chantal.
Ernst August and Chantal Hochuli divorced on 23 October 1997.

Ernst August married secondly, civilly in Monaco on 23 January 1999, Princess Caroline of Monaco, who was at the time expecting the birth of their child: princess Alexandra (1999). Their daughters title originates from her father and his family. She is styled: Princess Alexandra of Hanover. Alexandra is the only one of Princess Caroline's four children who bears any royal style or title. While she is formally styled as Her Royal Highness Princess Alexandra of Hanover in Monaco, she is afforded the style and title out of courtesy elsewhere. As the Kingdom of Hanover no longer exists, the title is not legally recognized in Germany. She is 12th in the line of succession to the Monegasque throne. Through her father, she was in the line of succession to the British throne until she was confirmed into the Catholic Church
Despite obtaining the official approval of the governments of France, Monaco and the United Kingdom, upon Caroline's marriage to Ernst August he forfeited his own place in Britain's order of succession. He is also subject to the Act of Settlement 1701, which imposes that consequence upon British dynasts who marry Roman Catholics

In 2009, it was reported that Caroline had separated from Ernst August and returned to live in Monaco.

In January 2010, photos emerged of Ernst August kissing a woman who was not identified as Caroline, leading press to speculate that the couple are divorcing.

Caroline's residence is the Villa Clos St Pierre in Monaco-ville where she lives with her youngest child, Princess Alexandra
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tsarinya

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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 01:32:58 AM »

Thank you, Principessa! Great information Smiley
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