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Author Topic: Prince Gustav NEWS & EVENTS  (Read 20976 times)
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Princess MS

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« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2021, 06:57:52 AM »

The realistic next step will be that Gustav will fall in love with someone "suitable" and he will have children in the end. It's sad, but it always seemed like his relationship with Carina wouldn't go on forever, not with the whole succession issue hanging in the balance.

How many “suitable” equals are unattached? Unless he finds a younger partner then children are unlikely in which case he should simply have whatever relationship he wants
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Kristallinchen

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« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2021, 09:39:20 AM »

I find it sad that these rules still exist. What do I know maybe they were comfortable with the situation.

But I wonder...does Gustav regret not standing up to his father/relatives? Does Carina silently regret of never going to have children?

I do too - in 2021 rules about who you can marry sound as antiquated as bloodletting.

What happens to the title if Gustav never has children?

Especially since they're a totally obscure princely family, who had but nothing to say in the former Empire.

Even the former strict (and much more important) reigning houses of Habsburg, Wittelsbach and Hohenzollern have recognized by now that there rules are not made for the present.

Richard had a brother, Robin (*1938), who has male descendants (a son and a grandson), but I'm not sure, if the marriages are considered equal. If not it would go even further back the line...and if from SWB there's no one left, there's also the SW-Sayn-line which would then most likely inherit (if not SWB would die out - happen to other SW-lines in the past)
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anastasia beaverhausen

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« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2021, 04:24:34 PM »

I find it sad that these rules still exist. What do I know maybe they were comfortable with the situation.

But I wonder...does Gustav regret not standing up to his father/relatives? Does Carina silently regret of never going to have children?

I do too - in 2021 rules about who you can marry sound as antiquated as bloodletting.

What happens to the title if Gustav never has children?

Especially since they're a totally obscure princely family, who had but nothing to say in the former Empire.

Even the former strict (and much more important) reigning houses of Habsburg, Wittelsbach and Hohenzollern have recognized by now that there rules are not made for the present.

Richard had a brother, Robin (*1938), who has male descendants (a son and a grandson), but I'm not sure, if the marriages are considered equal. If not it would go even further back the line...and if from SWB there's no one left, there's also the SW-Sayn-line which would then most likely inherit (if not SWB would die out - happen to other SW-lines in the past)


Thank you K!  Star
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Kristallinchen

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« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2021, 04:32:09 PM »

I find it sad that these rules still exist. What do I know maybe they were comfortable with the situation.

But I wonder...does Gustav regret not standing up to his father/relatives? Does Carina silently regret of never going to have children?

I do too - in 2021 rules about who you can marry sound as antiquated as bloodletting.

What happens to the title if Gustav never has children?

Especially since they're a totally obscure princely family, who had but nothing to say in the former Empire.

Even the former strict (and much more important) reigning houses of Habsburg, Wittelsbach and Hohenzollern have recognized by now that there rules are not made for the present.

Richard had a brother, Robin (*1938), who has male descendants (a son and a grandson), but I'm not sure, if the marriages are considered equal. If not it would go even further back the line...and if from SWB there's no one left, there's also the SW-Sayn-line which would then most likely inherit (if not SWB would die out - happen to other SW-lines in the past)


Thank you K!  Star

Hug

Btw I always use this side for genealogic search (it's not always 100% up to date):

https://genealogics.org/

The owner died a few years ago and now it gets kind of only sporadically updates (fe children born in the last years are not always shown...)
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Principessa

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« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2021, 09:38:30 AM »

I find it sad that these rules still exist. What do I know maybe they were comfortable with the situation.

But I wonder...does Gustav regret not standing up to his father/relatives? Does Carina silently regret of never going to have children?

I do too - in 2021 rules about who you can marry sound as antiquated as bloodletting.

What happens to the title if Gustav never has children?

Especially since they're a totally obscure princely family, who had but nothing to say in the former Empire.

Even the former strict (and much more important) reigning houses of Habsburg, Wittelsbach and Hohenzollern have recognized by now that there rules are not made for the present.

Richard had a brother, Robin (*1938), who has male descendants (a son and a grandson), but I'm not sure, if the marriages are considered equal. If not it would go even further back the line...and if from SWB there's no one left, there's also the SW-Sayn-line which would then most likely inherit (if not SWB would die out - happen to other SW-lines in the past)


Thank you K!  Star


Hug

Btw I always use this side for genealogic search (it's not always 100% up to date):

https://genealogics.org/

The owner died a few years ago and now it gets kind of only sporadically updates (fe children born in the last years are not always shown...)

Thank you for the great link! It opened an amazing world for me ( = someone with a large interest in genealogy, in particular the royal ones).  Thumb up Star
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Maria
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« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2021, 11:30:04 AM »

If he suddenly marries and has an heir with someone who fits the stipulations of will, it’s going to look.. something but so far he’s been in two serious relationships that didn’t fit the will so it doesn’t seem like he has put a lot of weight on it. Tbh I think it’s fair enough that it bothers him that his and his family’s life situation is dependent on the race and family of his partner. It’s a pretty unique and unfair situation, I think.
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« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2021, 12:04:49 AM »

The order of the mourners for the final farewell to the deceased, at the funeral of Prince Richard of S-W-B, tells the order of succession:

+ The succeeding now-reigning (“ Fürst”)  Prince Gustav escorted the chief mourner and widow of the deceased, Princess Benedikte;
+ The heir to the princedom, Berhardt of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein, was escorted by the consort (Carina) of the Fürst (aka Gustav, the reigning prince);
+ The heir to the heir, Wenzel Max, Hereditary Prince (Erbprinz) of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein, followed behind, with his own mother Katharina von Podewils-Dürniz (Bernhardt & Katharina have since divorced).

This is the best picture I could find of that - middle of this page:

https://www.billedbladet....-benedikte-knuget-af-sorg

The young man next to Benedikte in this photo is her grandson, though, is not Wenzel. It’s Count Richard von Pfeil and Klein-Ellguth, son of Princess Alexandra of S-W-B.  Count Richard seems to never have left his grandmother’s side at the funeral services.

Prince Robin, Richard’s younger brother, is sometimes misidentified as Gustav’s heir; however, Robin married in contravention to the House laws - the ones that prevented Gustav from keeping the stuff if he married in contravention to House Laws.  I note that Prince Robin couldn’t be bothered to show up at his brother’s funeral.  I’ve gotten tired of correcting Wiki on the topic - I think Robin has a publicist who keep changing it back.  His first marriage was to someone who was proclaimed to have been part of Swedish nobility (“af”) but that’s a little murky.  His second wife, Marie-Christine Heftler-Louiche (https://www.thepeerage.com/p6459.htm) is most assuredly not of equal birth - who cares about the other parts, it’s an unequal marriage.  

Wenzel is 23 years old now, will be 24 soon, so it’s perfectly reasonable to expect him to marry and have children.  However, if he doesn’t, after Wenzel is Prince Otto Ludwig of Sayn Wittgentein Berleberg, married to a Barroness von Cramm, the parents of Princess Lilly who was married to The Prince of Schuamberg-Lippe. However, their eldest son is not married to a noble woman and so their youngest son, Prince Maximillian, wold be the next heir

Someday we’ll find out but I’ll probably be gone by then myself, so some of you young-uns while have to use a Ouija board to tell me.

When Wenzel takes over for Gustav, it will re-unite the two branches of San-Wittgenstein, of which the Berleberg is the senior line.  It will bring together two really strong land holdings and a virtual empire, one of the largest land holdings in post-war Germany.  Part of the reason it wasn’t de-nazified and forfeited was the same will that Gustav’s grandfather put into play, which was an instrument for tax savings (generation skipping) rather than anything else.  it’s the House laws that block Gustav from marrying either of his fiancé’s - well, he could have married either of them but then the money goes away so...  Anyway, the very large, very quiet wealth that this represents is based largely in forestry and natural resources.  It is, in the words of my great grandfather, “a packet”.

The Getty photos of the funeral - leaving the church - show Carina openly sobbing - covering her face with her hands, handkerchief.  She was genuinely distraught.  
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 12:45:43 AM by Curtains » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2021, 12:46:35 AM »

This is fascinating. What a thing in this day and age. If Gustav had two fiancees why didn't he marry either one them? Or are you or him using that term like to say she's an "official" girlfriend and that's all. Is he not the kind of person to just go find the right kind of girl and have a couple of kiddos then set her free if it isn't a relationship that settles into something nice? Is he rich in forests or cash money? Maybe if he is thrifty or middle class in lifestyle it may not be interesting to stay with him. I keep thinking of Claus von Bulow who said the rich are different from you and me.
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« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2021, 01:29:56 AM »

This is fascinating. What a thing in this day and age. If Gustav had two fiancees why didn't he marry either one them? Or are you or him using that term like to say she's an "official" girlfriend and that's all. Is he not the kind of person to just go find the right kind of girl and have a couple of kiddos then set her free if it isn't a relationship that settles into something nice? Is he rich in forests or cash money? Maybe if he is thrifty or middle class in lifestyle it may not be interesting to stay with him. I keep thinking of Claus von Bulow who said the rich are different from you and me.

Official fiancé’s, both of them.  Carina Axelsson, the second one (probably ex by now) was treated as his wife in that she wore the family tiaras (generally reserved for only married women) and ran Bad Berleberg, the princely seat.  If he married either of them, he would have lost the land, wealth, etc as both of the fiancé’s were not “equal” under House laws.  There was a will of his grandfather that is differently restrictive but that really isn’t as operative as the House Laws for this situation.

Rich in both cash money and land.  Wealthy.  One of the wealthiest 500 families in Germany.  The castle is kinda nice.  Berleberg is kinda boring.

He seems nice but he looks like the regular doughy aristo with ruddy cheeks and a pasty complexion.  I’m sure he has lovely table manners.
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« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2021, 02:25:31 AM »

Thank you Curtains I appreciate your insight into this. Well if this last girl was able to live as his wife and run the dang place you would think that would be the goal of marrying a rich boring guy in the first place and she would be satisfied. Well if he needs kids I guess he can still go get them with the right gal.
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« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2021, 03:53:23 AM »

 Curtains you are amazing!  Star Star Star Star
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Princess MS

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« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2021, 04:44:03 AM »

This is fascinating. What a thing in this day and age. If Gustav had two fiancees why didn't he marry either one them? Or are you or him using that term like to say she's an "official" girlfriend and that's all. Is he not the kind of person to just go find the right kind of girl and have a couple of kiddos then set her free if it isn't a relationship that settles into something nice? Is he rich in forests or cash money? Maybe if he is thrifty or middle class in lifestyle it may not be interesting to stay with him. I keep thinking of Claus von Bulow who said the rich are different from you and me.

Official fiancé’s, both of them.  Carina Axelsson, the second one (probably ex by now) was treated as his wife in that she wore the family tiaras (generally reserved for only married women) and ran Bad Berleberg, the princely seat.  If he married either of them, he would have lost the land, wealth, etc as both of the fiancé’s were not “equal” under House laws.  There was a will of his grandfather that is differently restrictive but that really isn’t as operative as the House Laws for this situation.

Rich in both cash money and land.  Wealthy.  One of the wealthiest 500 families in Germany.  The castle is kinda nice.  Berleberg is kinda boring.

He seems nice but he looks like the regular doughy aristo with ruddy cheeks and a pasty complexion.  I’m sure he has lovely table manners.

I recently read that there is to be an Appeal heard in German High Court this year in relation to the formal recognition of Gustav's inheritance. Apparently one of the relatives lodged a case to challenge on the basis of him being in a "common law" marriage to Carina who did not meet the requirements  . . . the Court found in Gustav's favour during the previous case.

I wonder if the timings of her relocating in the UK had anything to do with this ? 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 04:56:21 AM by Princess MS » Logged
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« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2021, 08:42:10 AM »

I say it was more than “the money going away”. He, his parents and his siblings would have lost their home. And Richard and Gustav their jobs. I think that’s a pretty big deal which would matter to most people.
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Princess MS

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« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2021, 12:21:28 PM »

I say it was more than “the money going away”. He, his parents and his siblings would have lost their home. And Richard and Gustav their jobs. I think that’s a pretty big deal which would matter to most people.

These families protect themselves.. the old Nazi delaying taxes for decades and the estate valued at 1940’s values... meanwhile his son Richard would have had a right of residence for life and the income from the assets .... if they did not put many millions away yearly then I’d be amazed... they waited until the grandson came along before having him declared dead. Gustav could do anything... the Estate has already given him mega bucks and no doubt many residences for family and trusts for life.... all about money.... I have no idea about the Will as do the rest of us but these people would not have been homeless
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 12:55:59 PM by Princess MS » Logged
Maria
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« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2021, 02:52:50 PM »

I say it was more than “the money going away”. He, his parents and his siblings would have lost their home. And Richard and Gustav their jobs. I think that’s a pretty big deal which would matter to most people.

These families protect themselves.. the old Nazi delaying taxes for decades and the estate valued at 1940’s values... meanwhile his son Richard would have had a right of residence for life and the income from the assets .... if they did not put many millions away yearly then I’d be amazed... they waited until the grandson came along before having him declared dead. Gustav could do anything... the Estate has already given him mega bucks and no doubt many residences for family and trusts for life.... all about money.... I have no idea about the Will as do the rest of us but these people would not have been homeless

The castle has belonged to Gustav his entire life AFAIK. Iow had he just married Elvire or Carina, his father, mother and siblings and himself and his wife could have legally been kicked out of their home and Richard and Gustav lost their jobs. Never mind why and when the will was written, I fully understand that has been an obstacle for Gustav and obviously it’s not just about the money.
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