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Author Topic: Joachim and Marie are moving to Paris  (Read 55176 times)
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Barrie

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« Reply #75 on: June 23, 2020, 02:54:37 PM »

The brothers were once close but not anymore, I think that Fred gets along with them, but clearly no one wants Mary around. Marie comes from a well off family and Joachim speaks French so this move isn't anything too drastic.
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periwinkle

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« Reply #76 on: June 23, 2020, 06:23:03 PM »

It's too bad that Joachim gets so much criticism. Marge seems to do her duties as queen quite well even if a lot of it is theatrical but that's the job. Fred is useless and dumb. Joachim actually seems to be the most competent of the three pretty smart and a hard worker and seems a total gentleman with a strong sense of integrity. It is too bad if he has to contain his better impulses and life plans because of his stupid brother and any scheming on the part of his mom. He's sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place it seems.
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leatherface

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« Reply #77 on: June 23, 2020, 07:14:41 PM »

Joachim is the foil to Frederik. That is the role he has been designated, that is what Marge and DRF Grey men need him to be.

I bet he will keep his appendage and continue with scaled back royal duties not because that is what he wants but because that is what Marge and grey men have cooked up.

The DRF need Joachim around with the narrative of stuck up and entitled younger brother who is muscling in on Fred's territory after having failed at farming and marriage despite none of this being the reality.

Joachim has to remain as he is because the only other person that can be a foil to Fred is Christian and there is no in hell the promising heir presumptive is going to be sacrificed for the failing heir apparent.
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« Reply #78 on: June 24, 2020, 12:38:04 AM »

Harry is O/T.

I think Margrethe and Henrik tried but failed preparing Joachim for the future so it is not just on him. It’s definitely with Marge’s blessing that Joachim is on a public fee so she’s far from innocent in this matter.

My thesis is that Joachim and Marie don't want to be in Denmark once Mary "ascends the throne" (in Australian tabloid parlance). They are dipping out early, while it won't create a scandal, and with a good excuse.
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Chandrasekhi

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« Reply #79 on: June 24, 2020, 01:07:34 AM »

Joachim is the foil to Frederik. That is the role he has been designated, that is what Marge and DRF Grey men need him to be.

I bet he will keep his appendage and continue with scaled back royal duties not because that is what he wants but because that is what Marge and grey men have cooked up.

The DRF need Joachim around with the narrative of stuck up and entitled younger brother who is muscling in on Fred's territory after having failed at farming and marriage despite none of this being the reality.

Joachim has to remain as he is because the only other person that can be a foil to Fred is Christian and there is no in hell the promising heir presumptive is going to be sacrificed for the failing heir apparent.

Will it be a stretch to entertain the possibility that since Joachim is not likely to be king  that he is being helped to create a life of meaning and accomplishment independent of the  fate /state of his brother? He is in his fifties. He is sixth in line. He has not been  the spare to the heir for over 14 years. He has not been picking up the slack in Denmark. The state has not fallen apart in his absence. Even the embarrassing member of another royal family has realized he needed to craft a life for himself in his thirties and he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Frodo is a figurehead.  Not much is needed of him. His wife has a big enough ego and a drive for recognition to fill the void of his non-presence until his promising heir reaches maturity. The DRF is covered. There is no need for Jokke to put his life on hold. His commitment to his own life is long overdue.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 01:15:19 AM by Chandrasekhi » Logged

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« Reply #80 on: June 24, 2020, 12:21:37 PM »

Part of the criticism is definitely fair but nothing will come out of this. No other parties will support the anti-monarchy agenda that it obviously is and tbh it’s quite unfair that only Joachim and his family are scapegoats when the injustice of monarchy is up for debate.

Marge prepared this shitfest when she made sure Joachim was given a public  fee and later Alexandra too. Yet she is above criticism Beer Just as Fred gets away with doing nothing and Joachim, thus not being able to work very much, gets shit on whether he works as a prince or if he tries to move beyond it and gets an actual job.

It will be interesting if Isabella, Vincent and Josephine will be equally criticised when they are adults..

Probably, and this is why I don't envy the spares, even though it is probably easier to be a spare than the heir (you get the privilege and all the benefits of it when it comes to things like educational opportunities and never having to be poor but don't have to sit on the thone).

They spares are treated well as kids, because kids didn't choose to be here and they need to be provided for because they are too young to make their own way and it is a douche move to shit on kids so no one in the media will go there. They still get treated OK as young adults, because you gotta keep the spare liked in case a tragedy befalls the heir and the spare is needed to take the throne. But once the heir has gotten married has produced an heir......the spare is dumped and tossed out to dry because they are no longer needed. Some royal families do a good job of preparing the spares to make their own way (like Bea and Claus), but many of them don't and the spare gets blindsided when they go from "glam young royal" in (give or take) their early-mid twenties to "leech" by the time they are in their md thirties (again, give or take).

And the spares are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they take the Madde of Sweden or Harry Sussex path and peace out, they "want the title but none of the duty", but if they try to be relevant royals like Carl Philip/Hoefia or the Yorkies, they "want to live off the tax payer because they don't want to get a real job".
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« Reply #81 on: June 24, 2020, 01:10:54 PM »

I have no issue with Joachim deciding he wants to do more than just be a spare part. No doubt it is hard because there isn't even a lot of him to do so why not do a "proper" job  rather than sit around not doing much and always playing third fiddle to your mother, brother and sister in law. It seems to be the "in thing" to do at the moment.

My only issue would be that he is still getting his apanage but now not doing public duties. It would be neater IMO to "pause" his appanage for now and have a salary for his attache role with the appanage there to carry on if/when the attache role ends. I would be especially concerned that if they have less duties and possibly even less staff they are getting more money to spend on them personally Thinking

If the family were poor I could understand it but didn't Joachim manage to use his family connections to "sell" his private property to a "foundation" in a way that still allowed him to use it put pocket cash from "selling" it. Likewise he still owns hectares of other land which he is slowly selling of for millions of kroner.

This is the reoccurring theme of these royal "spares", no one minds at all them setting their own course in life, but it is an issue when they do that whilst still getting money from the public purse.

That said I'm not a Danish taxpayer so its not me picking up the bill for the Queen's second son and his family to enjoy a lavish Paris lifestyle Grin
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leatherface

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« Reply #82 on: June 24, 2020, 01:43:01 PM »

Joachim is the foil to Frederik. That is the role he has been designated, that is what Marge and DRF Grey men need him to be.

I bet he will keep his appendage and continue with scaled back royal duties not because that is what he wants but because that is what Marge and grey men have cooked up.

The DRF need Joachim around with the narrative of stuck up and entitled younger brother who is muscling in on Fred's territory after having failed at farming and marriage despite none of this being the reality.

Joachim has to remain as he is because the only other person that can be a foil to Fred is Christian and there is no in hell the promising heir presumptive is going to be sacrificed for the failing heir apparent.

Will it be a stretch to entertain the possibility that since Joachim is not likely to be king  that he is being helped to create a life of meaning and accomplishment independent of the  fate /state of his brother? He is in his fifties. He is sixth in line. He has not been  the spare to the heir for over 14 years. He has not been picking up the slack in Denmark. The state has not fallen apart in his absence. Even the embarrassing member of another royal family has realized he needed to craft a life for himself in his thirties and he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Frodo is a figurehead.  Not much is needed of him. His wife has a big enough ego and a drive for recognition to fill the void of his non-presence until his promising heir reaches maturity. The DRF is covered. There is no need for Jokke to put his life on hold. His commitment to his own life is long overdue.

Yes in reality Joachim is not needed in terms of actual royal position but he does very well with his patronages and ever since Fred married Mosh he as been used as a carnival mirror to make Fred look good. He is the designated whipping boy and there is no one else to play that role.

Let's say Joachim gives up the appendage permanently and lives quietly in France forever more, what is going to happen if there is public dissatisfaction with the DRF and Joachim is not there to be the means through which such dissatisfaction is vented? Will the press go after Daisy, Bene, Fred, Mary or the Derflets? Has the main line family of the DRF ever taken and withstood harsh press scrutiny? Moreover, if Joachim no longer receives tax payer money, will the press and public even care if he is used as a distraction by the DRF considering that they are no longer paying for him and his family?

The issue of Joachim's appendage and relevance is a microcosm of a larger debate on the monarchy, how it is structured and its overall relevance that TPTB in Dermark refuse to engage the public with even though the public are more than ready for it.
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Kristallinchen

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« Reply #83 on: June 24, 2020, 03:36:40 PM »

I have no issue with Joachim deciding he wants to do more than just be a spare part. No doubt it is hard because there isn't even a lot of him to do so why not do a "proper" job  rather than sit around not doing much and always playing third fiddle to your mother, brother and sister in law. It seems to be the "in thing" to do at the moment.

My only issue would be that he is still getting his apanage but now not doing public duties. It would be neater IMO to "pause" his appanage for now and have a salary for his attache role with the appanage there to carry on if/when the attache role ends. I would be especially concerned that if they have less duties and possibly even less staff they are getting more money to spend on them personally Thinking

If the family were poor I could understand it but didn't Joachim manage to use his family connections to "sell" his private property to a "foundation" in a way that still allowed him to use it put pocket cash from "selling" it. Likewise he still owns hectares of other land which he is slowly selling of for millions of kroner.

This is the reoccurring theme of these royal "spares", no one minds at all them setting their own course in life, but it is an issue when they do that whilst still getting money from the public purse.

That said I'm not a Danish taxpayer so its not me picking up the bill for the Queen's second son and his family to enjoy a lavish Paris lifestyle Grin

ITA.

Though one would think that this problem - what to do with a spare - doesn't arise overnight.

30, 40 etc. years should actually be enough to create or let any spare create a meaningful niche in or outside the country.

But they always wait like decades and then seem surprised, like: Oh he's also there? Did he hide in the closet? What do we do with him now?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 04:55:34 PM by Kristallinchen » Logged
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« Reply #84 on: June 24, 2020, 04:50:16 PM »

This debate wouldn’t even be happening if Fred had embraced his role and was doing it well.

Fred’s weakness and poor choice of wife throws Joachim’s role into high relief.
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periwinkle

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« Reply #85 on: June 24, 2020, 05:53:17 PM »

Reading through all of this and putting the pieces together it makes me wonder if Mary knew exactly what she was doing when she had the miracle twins to push Joachim and his wife further and further away from any claim on palaces or jewelry or land or formal role in the family.
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Maria
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« Reply #86 on: June 24, 2020, 07:14:27 PM »

It just shows how unfitting monarchies are in a modern society. Nikolai was loved and adored pretty much until he turned 18. Now every move he does is open for debate - leaving the army, doing modelling work, buying a flat.. even thoughhe receives no public money he’s still judged by the public. The same public that praises his grandmother who no doubt pays one or two bills HE gets blamed for Crazy
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Elissa

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« Reply #87 on: June 24, 2020, 07:39:04 PM »

The DRF is creating a precedent here.

Mosh and Fred should also be aware that what is currently happening with Joachim will also happen to Isabella and the twins in the future.
Three spares when Joachim was the only one of his generation is quite a lot of RF members to fund in the coming years. How will the taxpayers react ?

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« Reply #88 on: June 24, 2020, 07:58:19 PM »

IIRC shortly before Nikolai turn 18 it was announced that only Christian would receive an allowance and therefore be expected/allowed to be a working royal.  It was described as “simple mathematics”.
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Miss Marple

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« Reply #89 on: June 24, 2020, 10:12:38 PM »

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My thesis is that Joachim and Marie don't want to be in Denmark once Mary "ascends the throne" (in Australian tabloid parlance). They are dipping out early, while it won't create a scandal, and with a good excuse.

I think that pretty much nailed it - their children are too far from the throne to profit from their position - so they might have decided to let them grow up in France as normal citizens instead of "cousins of the king" in Denmark.

We should also not forget that Joachim has an excellent judgement of people and he has insider knowledge - he knows what makes Frodo Frodo while we can only speculate what could be wrong. He also knows that Marge, at her present age, will not continue working for a while - so then king Frodo the unable will have to take over who at times has no engagement for weeks, misses the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz and goes hunting ... His wife is clueless and ambitious and clearly no fun to work with. And Christian is nearly a child. This is not likely a successful team to represent Denmark on a national or international level.

If he lived in Denmark when that happened - people would expect him to step in - and Marie. Then the comparisons would start - Jokke vs. Frodo, Marie vs. Mary. In the end they would have to hand over the show to Mares and Christian and disappear again. If he would not step in he would be the mean brother. So he decided to disappear while mom is successfully running the show and in future, if needed, turn up at times but also say "Excusez-moi, je suis ..." at others.
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