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Author Topic: Joachim and Marie are moving to Paris  (Read 58794 times)
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Chandrasekhi

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« Reply #105 on: July 30, 2020, 03:13:11 PM »

For what it’s worth, bullying can happen to people in priviledged positions as well.

and there is a time and place for everything. Their statements would have invited hellfire and brimstone from any other royals as the spare to the spare to the spare  to the .....etc in the time of COVID-19, and perhaps not just now.
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« Reply #106 on: July 30, 2020, 03:51:14 PM »

Tbh I don’t think they’re being ungrateful or complaining about the actual job/ training Joachim got. Joachim completed the training and seems happy with the new job. I think they’re just saying that while they got criticized a lot for moving, it might have not actually been their choice.
I know they have to take the bad press but even while Marie was in Uganda with her charity, they talked almost more about Paris than they talked about the actual trip. I think maybe that’s what they meant when they said people should also talk about the positive.
 I don’t know how I feel about them speaking out but I don’t think they want to leave or anything. They’re going to do the 3 years in Paris even though it might now have been their initial plan.

Only them now why they decided to speak out right now (although I think Marie previously said in an other interview that she didn’t really have a choice either when it came to patronages? I think i’ve read that but i’m not sure), but if it had any impact on Joachim’s health - before the blood clot as they wouldn’t know it would happen- maybe that’s why.
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« Reply #107 on: July 30, 2020, 03:59:17 PM »

or a demand that he lose his appanage?


When asked if going back and forth between France and Denmark was the future plan, Princess Marie said: “We really do not know. We were thrown into it without thinking much.” Se og Hør noted that in October 2019, Prince Joachim had already said that he had been strongly encouraged by the Queen to accept the military training.[/b]

Se og Hør also said that Prince Joachim was tired of the press writing about his apenage. When the reporter started asking about the criticism, Joachim cut him off and said “Well, it’s over”. Asked about what he thought of the criticism, Joachim joked: “Se og Hør is really good at headline criticism. Do you know what would be most fair? Not writing about it.”

Princess Marie said: “But he is right. It has been unfair. Because he loves his country, and he works for Denmark, and he is proud to be a Dane and to be able to help where he can. And I do not think one should only say the negative. One must also say the positive.”


I am at a loss. Joachim has been given a job to either join an exclusive unit or had a job created for him and Marie complains? Especially in the age of COVID-19 where people are losing jobs, taking pay-cuts, have no idea how they will feed their families, are taking their lives?  We know of kids who are so stressed by their parents financial circumstances due to the depressed economy they talk about suicide. And Marie complains? It doesn't matter who her beef is with. To complain while sitting in the lap of luxury about the job gifted your husband is beyond the pale.

Sounds like other welfare recipients living in the lap of luxury.

We can hope that whatever frame of mind they conducted this interview in, Joachim's survival and recovery help them appreciate the life they have and the livelihood they have been given.

It seems some wives of previous 2nd in lines don't get it. If you marry into a Royal Family where the elder brother/sister already has children then you are irrelevant in a dynastic sense. You are on the public payroll - although you probably shouldn't be. So having to take poor press is part of the territory - "balancing it with good" is nonsense - press call it as they see it. We roll our eyes at those who cry "poor me/us" irrespective of where they live

I would hesitate to compare J&M with some of their cousins down south.

With regard to the job, I can understand Marie's possible anger/resentment if they were forced into it. Joachim did the training and they lived in France for a year, good stuff but their lives AFAWK are in Denmark. If the new position was foisted on them i.e. Joachim never applied for it and it was cooked up by the DRF grey men in a replay of Don Corleone making someone an offer they can't refuse then yes, I would be livid too if I was his wife.

Even if the job was actually offered to Joachim on the up and up because of his newly acquired skills, connections and social position, still he was "strongly encouraged" to take it. What if he and Marie had other plans or they were still discussing the merits of said job and what it would mean for their family and lives? Then Marge barges in and most likely strong-armed Joachim to take the job.

I personally think this job is the best thing for Joachim and Marie, it keeps them occupied, him gainfully employed, she provided for and most importantly out of sight while the Derfs do whatever it is they do, because I can't call what they do good and effective work. However, they may not see it as such, at least not yet, as they could associate this job with their lives being hi-jacked without so much as a by your leave.

But I will admit, regardless of how this current situation came about, Marie should not have publicly voiced her displeasure.

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Maria
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« Reply #108 on: July 30, 2020, 04:12:39 PM »

They are absolutely getting bullied in the press and while it may seem somewhat tone deaf to talk about it now, it’s been a long time coming which means there’s a bigger context to consider.

Everything economic Joachim does is approved by Margrethe and, when needed, the government. Still mostly Joachim and his family gets blamed for receiving his public pay. Not Margrethe. The various governments a wee bit. Strictly speaking only the regent and the heir should be on public pay but even though it was Margrethe’s idea, she gets no blame. That is unfair. Especially obvious when you look at the criticism that was directed at Nicolai when he worked as a model and bought a (n expensive) flat. Joachim’s family is damned if they do and damned if they don’t as far as the Danish press is concerned.

The same with work. Joachim gets public money because he is a working royal. The criticism is that he works very little. Of course he does. We have a future king who hardly works and, if you put down your rose coloured glasses, obviously isn’t very interested in the job. Imagine a scenario where Joachim worked the same or more than Fred? That’s never going to happen. Again we could say because when he married Alexandra and things went well, he was quite popular and there was a discussion about him being better suited for the job than Fred. That’s not a situation anyone wants repeated..

So instead he is the scapegoat and I don’t blame him - them - for stressing about it or for leaving the country. Once Nicolai turned 18 and the press started going after him, I think the writing was on the wall and I don’t think anyone can blame them for that.
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« Reply #109 on: July 30, 2020, 04:25:29 PM »

This is a general comment for anyone further down the line of succession in any Royal Family: why take an appanage when you have the ability to make a living if you perceive the press to hound you unmercifully for having accepted it in the first place? Why not just chuck it all in and leave? Is there anything that compels you to accept it?
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« Reply #110 on: July 30, 2020, 05:28:33 PM »

The problem is, that Marie often openly shows her displeasure, and emotions. One would think that she gained experience in PR and communicating with the media and newspapers.
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« Reply #111 on: July 30, 2020, 05:56:47 PM »

or a demand that he lose his appanage?


When asked if going back and forth between France and Denmark was the future plan, Princess Marie said: “We really do not know. We were thrown into it without thinking much.” Se og Hør noted that in October 2019, Prince Joachim had already said that he had been strongly encouraged by the Queen to accept the military training.[/b]

Se og Hør also said that Prince Joachim was tired of the press writing about his apenage. When the reporter started asking about the criticism, Joachim cut him off and said “Well, it’s over”. Asked about what he thought of the criticism, Joachim joked: “Se og Hør is really good at headline criticism. Do you know what would be most fair? Not writing about it.”

Princess Marie said: “But he is right. It has been unfair. Because he loves his country, and he works for Denmark, and he is proud to be a Dane and to be able to help where he can. And I do not think one should only say the negative. One must also say the positive.”


I am at a loss. Joachim has been given a job to either join an exclusive unit or had a job created for him and Marie complains? Especially in the age of COVID-19 where people are losing jobs, taking pay-cuts, have no idea how they will feed their families, are taking their lives?  We know of kids who are so stressed by their parents financial circumstances due to the depressed economy they talk about suicide. And Marie complains? It doesn't matter who her beef is with. To complain while sitting in the lap of luxury about the job gifted your husband is beyond the pale.

Sounds like other welfare recipients living in the lap of luxury.

We can hope that whatever frame of mind they conducted this interview in, Joachim's survival and recovery help them appreciate the life they have and the livelihood they have been given.


This has nothing to do with money, or especially with  COVID 19!

To me, bringing up this connection does not even make sense.

This has to do with a family being told that there is no place for them in the country they are living in, and the public perception of it.

Then, Joachim has always gotten the short end of the stick. He couldn't do what he was interested in or wanted to do. It was determined he would get Schackenborg, and become a farmer, which we know didn't go well.

Now, he is basically told to leave the country he loves to live in, and take a position in France.

"Encouraged" by his own mother then, and now.

Joachim had always to take the brunt for his brother, even if he worked harder than him. He was the scape goat. Now the public perception is that he turned his back on Denmark, left Denmark gladly, to live his life in France.

They felt they needed to let the Danish people know that is not how it went down....and good for them! Obviously, this didn't go down, how the public is looking at it.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 06:11:07 PM by PeDe » Logged

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« Reply #112 on: July 30, 2020, 06:06:40 PM »

or a demand that he lose his appanage?


When asked if going back and forth between France and Denmark was the future plan, Princess Marie said: “We really do not know. We were thrown into it without thinking much.” Se og Hør noted that in October 2019, Prince Joachim had already said that he had been strongly encouraged by the Queen to accept the military training.[/b]

Se og Hør also said that Prince Joachim was tired of the press writing about his apenage. When the reporter started asking about the criticism, Joachim cut him off and said “Well, it’s over”. Asked about what he thought of the criticism, Joachim joked: “Se og Hør is really good at headline criticism. Do you know what would be most fair? Not writing about it.”

Princess Marie said: “But he is right. It has been unfair. Because he loves his country, and he works for Denmark, and he is proud to be a Dane and to be able to help where he can. And I do not think one should only say the negative. One must also say the positive.”


I am at a loss. Joachim has been given a job to either join an exclusive unit or had a job created for him and Marie complains? Especially in the age of COVID-19 where people are losing jobs, taking pay-cuts, have no idea how they will feed their families, are taking their lives?  We know of kids who are so stressed by their parents financial circumstances due to the depressed economy they talk about suicide. And Marie complains? It doesn't matter who her beef is with. To complain while sitting in the lap of luxury about the job gifted your husband is beyond the pale.

Sounds like other welfare recipients living in the lap of luxury.

We can hope that whatever frame of mind they conducted this interview in, Joachim's survival and recovery help them appreciate the life they have and the livelihood they have been given.


This has nothing to do with money, or especially with  COVID 19!

To me, bringing up this connection does not even make sense.

This has to do with a family being told that there is no place for them in the country they are living in, and the public perception of it.

Then, Joachim has always gotten the short end of the stick. He couldn't do what he was interested in or wanted to do. It was determined he would get Schackenborg, and become a farmer, which we know didn't go well.

No, he is basically told to leave the country he loves to live in, and take a position in France.

"Encouraged" by his own mother then, and now.

Joachim had always to take the brunt for his brother, even if he worked harder than him. He was the scape goat. Now the public perception is that he turned his back on Denmark, left Denmark gladly, to live his life in France.

They felt they needed to let the Danish people know that is not how it went down....and good for them! Obviously, this didn't go down, how the public is looking at it.


ITA
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« Reply #113 on: July 30, 2020, 06:07:32 PM »

or a demand that he lose his appanage?


When asked if going back and forth between France and Denmark was the future plan, Princess Marie said: “We really do not know. We were thrown into it without thinking much.” Se og Hør noted that in October 2019, Prince Joachim had already said that he had been strongly encouraged by the Queen to accept the military training.[/b]

Se og Hør also said that Prince Joachim was tired of the press writing about his apenage. When the reporter started asking about the criticism, Joachim cut him off and said “Well, it’s over”. Asked about what he thought of the criticism, Joachim joked: “Se og Hør is really good at headline criticism. Do you know what would be most fair? Not writing about it.”

Princess Marie said: “But he is right. It has been unfair. Because he loves his country, and he works for Denmark, and he is proud to be a Dane and to be able to help where he can. And I do not think one should only say the negative. One must also say the positive.”


I am at a loss. Joachim has been given a job to either join an exclusive unit or had a job created for him and Marie complains? Especially in the age of COVID-19 where people are losing jobs, taking pay-cuts, have no idea how they will feed their families, are taking their lives?  We know of kids who are so stressed by their parents financial circumstances due to the depressed economy they talk about suicide. And Marie complains? It doesn't matter who her beef is with. To complain while sitting in the lap of luxury about the job gifted your husband is beyond the pale.

Sounds like other welfare recipients living in the lap of luxury.

We can hope that whatever frame of mind they conducted this interview in, Joachim's survival and recovery help them appreciate the life they have and the livelihood they have been given.

It seems some wives of previous 2nd in lines don't get it. If you marry into a Royal Family where the elder brother/sister already has children then you are irrelevant in a dynastic sense. You are on the public payroll - although you probably shouldn't be. So having to take poor press is part of the territory - "balancing it with good" is nonsense - press call it as they see it. We roll our eyes at those who cry "poor me/us" irrespective of where they live


Oh, wives of the 2nd in line get it very well. and the 3rd, and the 4th in line as well. And this has nothing to do with relevance or irrelevance. Clearly! This has to do with a family being not only bullied by the press, but bullied by the press via one special family.

The current heir of the throne is a lazy, nothing for good womanizer, and his consort to behaves like a Real Housewife of Copenhagen. Please! Nobody denies that public figures have to deal with good or bad press, but if the press is constantly to take a person down, bullying them, it's a whole other story alltogether. And let's be honest, whenever did a press called as they saw it. As soon as an article or story brings money, as false as it may be, as scewed as it may be...it's money, and that's what counts.
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Chandrasekhi

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« Reply #114 on: July 30, 2020, 06:15:18 PM »

PeDe, the laundry list of demerits of Floppy Frodo and his wife notwithstanding, if the move to Paris was not what Jokke and Marie wanted, what prevented them from turning down the appanage and getting jobs in Denmark so they would not be forced to leave home?
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« Reply #115 on: July 30, 2020, 06:43:27 PM »

PeDe, the laundry list of demerits of Floppy Frodo and his wife notwithstanding, if the move to Paris was not what Jokke and Marie wanted, what prevented them from turning down the appanage and getting jobs in Denmark so they would not be forced to leave home?


I don't think it is as easy as we imagine. If I would answer without thinking, I would say nothing. But when you consider his upbringing, and the immense loyalty and dedication to the history of the RF, I would say it would be very difficult. It's not as simple as saying, screw that I do my own thing with my family.

Remember, when Fred was living life as a spoiled brat, not wanting to marry, but partying like there is no tomorrow, it was Joachim and Alexandra who were pushed in a de facto CP position. They worked a lot with their patronages, were immensly popular, and represented their country nationally and internationally. The press then, didn't even comment on this situation. Didn't call out Fred for not taking his role seriously. That all changed when Fred was forced finally to marry the one person who chased him down. And then the press went to work.

It was/is evident, that for Joachim his position, his work is part of his identity. He loves what he does. I believe he would have worked more, the same with Marie, if they would have been allowed to, but that was brought to a halt. So giving up a part of your identity is a struggle. And this has nothing to do with relevance, but a deep seated commitment you feel for something. Despite the bad press he received, his dedication for his country and his history came always first.

Where it works fine is e.g. the Netherlands. They got it right. Alexander's brothers were brought up from the beginning with the understanding what would happen when he takes over. That was quite different in DK. Joachim's destiny was always directed by the RF, by others, they put him in position where it suited them, and then dropped him when it suited them, irregardless what it did to him personally.

Plus, I'm not sure Daisy would agree to that, it would mean another scandal for the RF. So sending him off to another country, but still being connected to Denmark works for her, and has to work for him and his family as well, if they want or not.
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« Reply #116 on: July 30, 2020, 07:47:34 PM »

PeDe,  Hug for the thought-provoking reply. Jokke has come a very long way from many of his foibles in which he resembled his brother. We have references for it on RD. He was not always so dutiful and rightfully incurred the censure that followed. He had many opportunities to carve out a life for himself in the military, as farmer, as racing car driver. .He has not always been the long suffering dutiful son who slogged away while his brother went partying. It has been discussed here on RD.

There has long been the view on the board that Daisy had the measure of Mary and was still very much Queen. Why she would buckle under the "onslaught of Mary instigated bad press" to banish her son boggles my mind.


A blast from Jokke's past on RD. The board has more on the Jokke-Alex split thread..

https://royaldish.com/ind...p?topic=981.15#quickreply
Quote
.....What role did Joachim play? Who says he wasn't the one who wanted to get divorced? How about his drinking, partying and documented flirting with younger women all over Jylland - you don't think that played a part Huh?




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« Reply #117 on: July 30, 2020, 08:09:45 PM »

oh, of course. Everybody is aware of that.

I didn't say he was perfect, or try to paint him as duty-bound, non-fail son. Joachim naturally had his private crashes, he is human after all. Both, Fred and Joachim, did what they did privately, but when a head line loomed, and there was money to make, it was Joachim whose negative story was pushed to the forefront. We didn't see that much push for Fred's negative story's in Danish media. Fred got away with crap Joachim never could.

But that's not what I mean. I was talking about his professional live as a represntative of the RF, which is a big part of his identity. When he was on the job, he was on the job. Seriously, committed, and dutiful. And I believe that is the part of his identity that is difficult to let go of.

Daisy does what makes the RF look best, without concern as to advice, warning, or hardship, meaning pushing the popularity of the CP couple, privately & publicly, because they will take over her legacy and her position. And then doing what she did to Joachim.
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« Reply #118 on: July 30, 2020, 08:52:09 PM »

oh, of course. Everybody is aware of that.

I didn't say he was perfect, or try to paint him as duty-bound, non-fail son. Joachim naturally had his private crashes, he is human after all. Both, Fred and Joachim, did what they did privately, but when a head line loomed, and there was money to make, it was Joachim whose negative story was pushed to the forefront. We didn't see that much push for Fred's negative story's in Danish media. Fred got away with crap Joachim never could.

But that's not what I mean. I was talking about his professional live as a represntative of the RF, which is a big part of his identity. When he was on the job, he was on the job. Seriously, committed, and dutiful. And I believe that is the part of his identity that is difficult to let go of.

Daisy does what makes the RF look best, without concern as to advice, warning, or hardship, meaning pushing the popularity of the CP couple, privately & publicly, because they will take over her legacy and her position. And then doing what she did to Joachim.

PeDe, I have read too much about Jokke's and Alex split to believe that he was the diligent, sober representative of the DRF when married to Alex. There were reports that she tired of picking up the slack for the party prince man-child. Unless they were all lies, he has come a long way. I sincerely hope he recovers fully and is capable of working for a living like 99.9999% of people on the planet . Yet, he gets to keep his appanage while earning a salary. Nothing stops him from returning to Denmark, taking up a corporate job and becoming a philanthropist and taking on patronages. Many people who make their own money do that. With Jokke's contacts, intelligence and experience he could land himself a plum job worth more than the apannage he receives from the state. Like Alex he can sit on boards as non-executive director. No need for a pity party. There is enough of that going on in royal circles with 6ths in line.
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« Reply #119 on: July 30, 2020, 09:32:06 PM »

oh, of course. Everybody is aware of that.

I didn't say he was perfect, or try to paint him as duty-bound, non-fail son. Joachim naturally had his private crashes, he is human after all. Both, Fred and Joachim, did what they did privately, but when a head line loomed, and there was money to make, it was Joachim whose negative story was pushed to the forefront. We didn't see that much push for Fred's negative story's in Danish media. Fred got away with crap Joachim never could.

But that's not what I mean. I was talking about his professional live as a represntative of the RF, which is a big part of his identity. When he was on the job, he was on the job. Seriously, committed, and dutiful. And I believe that is the part of his identity that is difficult to let go of.

Daisy does what makes the RF look best, without concern as to advice, warning, or hardship, meaning pushing the popularity of the CP couple, privately & publicly, because they will take over her legacy and her position. And then doing what she did to Joachim.

PeDe, I have read too much about Jokke's and Alex split to believe that he was the diligent, sober representative of the DRF when married to Alex. There were reports that she tired of picking up the slack for the party prince man-child. Unless they were all lies, he has come a long way. I sincerely hope he recovers fully and is capable of working for a living like 99.9999% of people on the planet . Yet, he gets to keep his appanage while earning a salary. Nothing stops him from returning to Denmark, taking up a corporate job and becoming a philanthropist and taking on patronages. Many people who make their own money do that. With Jokke's contacts, intelligence and experience he could land himself a plum job worth more than the apannage he receives from the state. Like Alex he can sit on boards as non-executive director. No need for a pity party. There is enough of that going on in royal circles with 6ths in line.

Chandra, so have I, but as I said before, headlines make money. I believe half of the things written about the split, hence looking at the situation form a different ventage point. 

You are right 99.9999% of people on the planet are not royal, born in a system that works differently. Hardly a pity party. Alex was a married princess, Joachim is a born royal - again difference there. If you would contrast/compare Alex/Marie that argument would make sense to me. And in that sense, what value does a Royal Family hold these days. Why not then abolish the monarchical system in total, and let them fend for themselves, like 99.9999% of people on the planet do. Problem solved.

I just see it in a different way than you, and that is good. That's why we are here, to discuss things from all kinds of positions.  Champagne

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