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Author Topic: Joachim and Marie are moving to Paris  (Read 52479 times)
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Chandrasekhi

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« Reply #135 on: July 31, 2020, 05:47:14 PM »

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This is quite the whodunnit,  Miss Marple. Who drove J&M out of town?

Was it Mary with the dagger of the tabloids in Amaliensborg?  Thinking Thinking Thinking
The interrogation of the motive and means:
1. Daisy tolerates Mary, loves Marie.
2. Frodo hates/resents/tolerates Mary, loves his kids.
3. Mary threatening to run-off would have made everyone glad. They might even have paid her to do if the right amount was available. Then Jokke could act as regent until Xtian is old enough to ascend the throne.
4. Frodo is too depressed/medicated to rustle up the energy for a bust-up with his brother.
What could have woken Fred up long enough to exile his brother over the position he has taken little interest in?

 Beer PeDe for the appanage AND salary correction

IMO: Marge.

It comes unexpectatly, but here is my idea why: Society is changing. Hierarchies are flatter, the support for the monarchy dwindles in general and also the idea that someone is born rather than elected in a position becomes more and more alienating. Now with Covid people will look very carefully where their tax money is being spend and for what.

Then you have the DRF - eight children in the next generation. Four for each brother. Let's look at Jokke's family:
(1) Alex: Was incredibly popular and back then it was possible that the Danish people footed the divorce bill which did not come cheap.
     Then the Martin disaster and question: Was she really worth ALL that money?
(2) Nikolai: Does not participate (as not son of heir) but has personal financial advantages from being a member of the DRF (indirectly be-
     cause of dad's money) and lately because it got him a high profile modelling job.
(3) Felix: Just 18. Too young to stir trouble.
So finance might be a reason.

The other reason: Marge is 80. She is clever and knows that someday, most likely within the next decade, king Frodo will follow into her footsteps. And it is clearly visible that king Frodo is not ready. Nor is he motivated to be ready. Most of the time you wonder "what is that guy doing all day?". We saw what he was not doing - last autumn. The world's leaders gathered in Auschwitz - while Frodo was preparing a shooting weekend. That says all that needs to be said. Ironically there was not shitstorm about that. People ignored it - which might have showed Marge: People don't care about the monarchy that much anymore. It largely went unnoticed.

So her cleverest bet was to hope that people would never really ask why king Frodo is keeping a low profile. So she sent Frodo to Switzerland to see if anyone would miss him (of course not, as nothing changed for the Danes). She and her sister started running the show.

That was the moment when she realized - she had to get rid of Jokke and Marie, because, in contrast to gawky Marie and Frodo, they would do a good job and people might realize "why is the brother of the king doing a better job than the king?". So she sent them to France. If Jokke had not spilled the beans it would have looked as if he wanted out - but the truth was - they wanted him out.

So now Frodo and Mares can rule without any "comparison couple" beside them, hoping that Christian and Izzy can help and charm the Danes with their youth and spirit.


ITA until Maroon text, Miss Marple. Here is why:
The same argument of taking attention away from an emerging scandal/inept/scandalous royal is advanced by rabid stans of ex(ish)-royals to cover for a criminal investigation of said royal in another family. The reporting shows that it did not make the slightest difference. The failure of Frodo has been factored into the future of the monarchy. It is a similar principle companies use in issuing profit warnings to avoid a bloodbath in the markets.

Frodo is ignored because he has been assessed to be irrelevant. The benefit of a constitutional monarchy is quite a different matter altogether. Since there is little added value by the person who will hold the position, the question then is how can one retain a constitutional monarch while minimizing the cost to the tax-payer.  What is the minimum number of royals required to maintain the institution? Joachim can do cartwheels in space and it would not change the equation.

Joachim is credited with intelligence. Whether it is just relative to his brother or comparable to bright people in general society, how would one tell? Is it too much to expect from a Joachim comparably intelligent to other bright people in general society, to plan for a future in which the 6th in line is surplus to needs?  I don't think think so.

If one can pose the argument that people in positions of authority and responsibility around him should shoulder some of the blame for how an ex-ish royal turned out, a similar principle can be applied to the DRF. I have often thought Marge a terrible, neglectful mother. She may have failed Frodo but in this "banishment" she has given Joachim a gift of a chance at a fulfilling career where only the Peter Principle and NOT the archaic Primogeniture Principle can halt his advancement. She can do no more. It is up to Jokke to see the gift or the slight in it.

Should Jokke still receive an apanage? All the perceptions of scape-goatism in the world should not prevent that question from being addressed. Monarchies survive through adaptation. The Saxe-Coburg-Gothas changed their name; Felipe has given up his inheritance from his father; CG has stripped grand-children, (including those of his beloved son) not in the direct line of succession, of their royal titles. Dishers would be able to come up with a list of sacrifices/changes made by other reigning royal families to ensure their survival. The DRF is not yet in peril so living off the fat of the land may still seem viable but for how long? Rather jump than be pushed. Clearly Jokke hates being pushed, even if it's for his own good.  

 Star Super-sleuthing, Miss Marple
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 06:03:08 PM by Chandrasekhi » Logged

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periwinkle

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« Reply #136 on: July 31, 2020, 07:49:39 PM »

You guys are good. It does seem that getting the regal Joachim and his well mannered family out of the way will avoid negative comparisons to Fred's family. And it will avoid nasty dust-ups between the two like that Christmas when Marie chastised a young Christian and Mary decided to be upset and storm out of the festivities with her whole family. I mean Marge is strategic here I guess knowing that Mary won't change she is making Joachim take the hit for that. But as you say this is for the continuation of the monarchy. Christian so far seems to be a nice enough young man and hasn't exhibited any negative impulses so far so Marge is probably banking on him to be the future and I will be he is allowed to marry a nice Danish girl.
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« Reply #137 on: July 31, 2020, 07:57:20 PM »

Just a thought. In my country it was well known that the Queen does the queening and Prince Philip was head of the family. (Let's ignore the fact that that has probably not been happening too much here for a while given PP's age) But it's only just over two years since the DRF lost Prince Henrik. We don't know exactly what his role was but it could be that they are all still in a grieving stage where they are a bit rudderless, aren't quite sure how to fill the gap (both official or privately) and poorly thought out decisions are being made...
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Chandrasekhi

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« Reply #138 on: August 01, 2020, 01:29:46 PM »

Jokke worth more than Fred and far from penniless?
Not verified. Is there any truth to the comments on Jokke pocketing the money from the sale of Schackenborg?
Quote
https://royalchatter.crea...ie-and-kids/msg11350/#new
....
Oh, many Danes are livid about the large payments for Alexandra.

As far as I am informed, Joachim is actually wealthier than Fred, so I too think he could easily live without the apanage.
I donīt understand the "sale" of Schackenborg - which isnīt really a sale. In any case, Jokke got millions out of it with the help of wealthy Danes. Something strange about the whole thing. He claimed he owed a lot of money because the farm had a negative balance - and then suddenly he gets 42 millions - and can still use the castle.
The sum of all those things (which you listed) make the Danes rather skeptical about Jokke.
That said, he got a lot of support and well wishes now after he got the stroke.
I too wish him well and feel for him and his family. Not easy for any of them.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 01:37:47 PM by Chandrasekhi » Logged

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periwinkle

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« Reply #139 on: August 01, 2020, 02:52:49 PM »

Didn't he enter some business partnership where he retains the right to stay there but essentially rents it as a conference center and offices? That's probably good rental income.
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anastasia beaverhausen

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« Reply #140 on: August 01, 2020, 04:21:59 PM »

Jokke worth more than Fred and far from penniless?
Not verified. Is there any truth to the comments on Jokke pocketing the money from the sale of Schackenborg?
Quote
https://royalchatter.crea...ie-and-kids/msg11350/#new
....
Oh, many Danes are livid about the large payments for Alexandra.

As far as I am informed, Joachim is actually wealthier than Fred, so I too think he could easily live without the apanage.
I donīt understand the "sale" of Schackenborg - which isnīt really a sale. In any case, Jokke got millions out of it with the help of wealthy Danes. Something strange about the whole thing. He claimed he owed a lot of money because the farm had a negative balance - and then suddenly he gets 42 millions - and can still use the castle.
The sum of all those things (which you listed) make the Danes rather skeptical about Jokke.
That said, he got a lot of support and well wishes now after he got the stroke.
I too wish him well and feel for him and his family. Not easy for any of them.


I wonder if this ousting was the terminus of a very long term plan?  Give Jokke $42 million outright with the intention of eventually pushing him and his family out of the country.  I’m sure Marge has been aware for a very long time that Fred is not exactly up to the task of being king.
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leatherface

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« Reply #141 on: August 01, 2020, 04:33:41 PM »

Didn't he enter some business partnership where he retains the right to stay there but essentially rents it as a conference center and offices? That's probably good rental income.

I think he sold shackenborg to a trust wherein the building and land will be preserved. it would also be open to the public and serve as some kind of entertainment venue with the shacks having a right of residence to keep the royal links to Tonder.

Jokke worth more than Fred and far from penniless?
Not verified. Is there any truth to the comments on Jokke pocketing the money from the sale of Schackenborg?
Quote
https://royalchatter.crea...ie-and-kids/msg11350/#new
....
Oh, many Danes are livid about the large payments for Alexandra.

As far as I am informed, Joachim is actually wealthier than Fred, so I too think he could easily live without the apanage.
I donīt understand the "sale" of Schackenborg - which isnīt really a sale. In any case, Jokke got millions out of it with the help of wealthy Danes. Something strange about the whole thing. He claimed he owed a lot of money because the farm had a negative balance - and then suddenly he gets 42 millions - and can still use the castle.
The sum of all those things (which you listed) make the Danes rather skeptical about Jokke.
That said, he got a lot of support and well wishes now after he got the stroke.
I too wish him well and feel for him and his family. Not easy for any of them.


I wonder if this ousting was the terminus of a very long term plan?  Give Jokke $42 million outright with the intention of eventually pushing him and his family out of the country.  I’m sure Marge has been aware for a very long time that Fred is not exactly up to the task of being king.

I don't think the ousting was part of a long term plan, it it was Marie would be so upset. I think things came to a head (most likely caused by Derf and wife) and it was decided that Jokke and family would be pushed out to keep the DRF ship afloat.

I bet the when Derf becomes King or it looks like Marge is about to shuffle off her mortal coil, there will be "sudden" talk of downgrading the shack kids to Counts of Rosenborg/Montpezat.
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periwinkle

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« Reply #142 on: August 01, 2020, 06:11:05 PM »

Thanks leatherface that makes sense and keeps the family linked to the place. Even if Joachim did not want to be a full time farmer I am sure the area and the house are very special to him and probably also to Marie who seemed very happy there in their photo shoots. If giving up the property and getting a settlement really happened then it plays into the story of kicking Joachim out to make his dumb brother look better. I would be bitter too Marie!
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