Joachim and Marie are moving to Paris

[Maria]

I don't think it's a good idea to insert so many quotes from another Forum/Board, espeacially when it is a collection of personal opionions of other people that do not belong to RD, instead of actual fact-based research. It created difficulty in the past. Just sayin'

1.This must be the only thread where it is verbotten.
2. I am not emotionally invested in the information presented. If you want to go ahead and conduct research to prove/disprove/clarify anything presented to satisfy your level of rigour for "actual fact-based research", I am certain we will all be the wiser for it.
3. The last time I checked, we were a discussion forum. I can't imagine the Wall Street Journal wanting its writers to "get your snark on".

You are downright rude. Back off. And no, it is not okay to quote lots of posts from other posters elsewhere. Never was.

Maria, I have a lot of respect for you. This is my defence.
- Nowhere in my post have I presented my information as facts, just as information. If PeDe wants to present alternative information, I am ready to read them. We have quoted other boards elsewhere. Most of the other board quotes are from a single thread to illustrate the conversation about the issue at the time. There are many RD quotes, including PeDe's.
- How often have dishers has been asked to verify anything they have said with factual research? Yet I have been asked to provide it for my post. The post does not require any reference to any other board to support its argument. There are enough stand alone references in it to achieve it.
- I referred to it as an "Investigation" in inverted commas because that is what it is.

There’s no defending being rude There’s you backing down or you getting warned. And stop quoting lots of post/ers from other sites.

[Chandrasekhi]

It is done.

[Gemsheal]

I rather enjoyed reading that original post about Joachim.  I had no idea what a shady financial scumbag he is, apart from the huge payoff to Alexandra (which is the only thing I was aware of).

It's also silly, and impolitic to say the least, for Marie to spill that it wasn't their idea/desire to take the French posting.  Their Royal status provides every comfort and buffer that money can provide, even Joachim in his current crisis will have the very best medical care.  Living in Paris with all expenses paid is not a hardship 

[Lord G¡n]

I have read that he has left hospital and they are going to stay in the French castle. Is he OK?

[Maria]

I rather enjoyed reading that original post about Joachim.  I had no idea what a shady financial scumbag he is, apart from the huge payoff to Alexandra (which is the only thing I was aware of).

It's also silly, and impolitic to say the least, for Marie to spill that it wasn't their idea/desire to take the French posting.  Their Royal status provides every comfort and buffer that money can provide, even Joachim in his current crisis will have the very best medical care.  Living in Paris with all expenses paid is not a hardship 

He’s hardly a financial scumbag - no more than the rest of the DRF is anyway.

Also they are bullied by the press, even the children, so I don’t blame Marie for speaking up. No one in the Danmark is talking about or blaming Margrethe and/or Fred for the situation. Only Joachim. Who has not been free to choose what to do with his life. Compared to most ordinary people he certainly lives a good and easy life but compared to his family? He’s treated as shit.

[Maria]

They made the same mistake with Jokke as many other RFs made with their spares - they are used to a rather exclusive life style without a real purpose in life. In Jokke's case it might be even more dramatic because:

(1) He has married twice and his first wife got an extremely generous settlement (footed by the taxpayer, that would not go down well with
     today's standards)
(2) He has four children used to a rather exclusive lifestlye.
(3) His brother has four children so there is no need for him or his children to stay around ... whatever will happen in future, it won't affect
     him
(4) Except his mom there are no workhorses in the DRF
(5) He likes a flashy exclusive lifestyle (castle in France, villa in south of France).

I don't remember who it was - but someone rightly pointed out that from Marge's point of view it makes a lot of sense to take him out of the game because:

(1) His family is no longer needed for the royal succession or for representating - Marge and Bene are still around, Prince Christian will be
     15 shortly
(2) Denmark is not that big and surely managable for Frodo and Mares + Christian one day - if Frodo is not able to "perform" it is down to
     Mares and Christian (and maybe Izzy to some extend)
(3) It might not be wise to have him and Marie around because someone might notice that he and she are doing a better job than Frodo
     and Yrma 
(4) He did not manage to farm Schakenbourg successfully - but, as someone said, it is now expected of the "spares" to work because
     RFs are downsizing in general - so this seems like a good chance for him to enter the working world. The only RF who got this right so 
     far is the Dutch RF.
(5) His children need to have paid jobs. It is already a bit dodgy that Nikolai is using is royal connections for commercial modelling -if
     three more follow his example, it will spark criticism - same with Frodo's kids - Izzy and the twins will have to work for a living. 
(6) France is perfect because everyone speaks the language, there is no nobility, they live a rather anonymous life there and there are a
     lot of family connections. They can basically start anew ...

 

A few things. The castle in France - blame Henrik and Margrethe. She used money from Danish tax payers because Henrik sulked about being #2 so she bought him a castle and paid for him making wine. AFAIK the castle belongs to the family and it’s not just Joachim who uses it - why on earth should he not use it when it belongs to the family?

Also Nicolaj’s work is fair and square. Do you seriously think Joachim and Alexandra has enough clout to make Burberry and Dior hiring him?! Come one. He works. He earns his own money. Fair and square.

Marge and Henrik decided Joachim should be a farmer. Marge forced him and Alex to remain married for a longer time to make the family look good. Marge orchestrated Joachim’s appanage AND for Alexandra’s too because she’s too greedy to pay herself. Mary’s prenup was literally changed to make sure a divorce wouldn’t cost the DRF money. There’s a LOT to criticise but Joachim is more a symptom than the cause.

[MarieQueenie]

Thank you Maria, it helps us to understand better.

I think that is really hard to be forced to be a farmer and recive much less money and still be able to look like the heir to the throne and his wife : dresses, shoes, hairdos, jewlery, big smiles and glamour etc... etc...

[MarieQueenie]

So I do not follow these two at all. For me J+M make even Viktoria look interesting. Jokke is a bit creepy (but of course I do not wish him ill) and Marie doesn’t dress well, or not  enough to catch my interest, so I am not aware where does the conspiracy theory about them being ‘driven out’ come from. Of course if they (or anybody) are being bullied somehow by the press then that is bad. (It sounds like the Daily Fail in the UK, regarding the couple who cannot be mentioned). This move sounds like a good way to prove themselves.

In 2020 the role of constitutional monarch has ‘dwindled’ everywhere to almost nothing  from what I see.  For me it is not a full time job even for one person,  so what are J+M supposed to do for work? To me it is quite sensible to relocate him. At his age it will be more and more difficult to start any new career so this sounds like a good solution for him:  maintaining a link with his father’s homeland; an attachment to the Danish embassy (or I misunderstand this part) keeps him ‘au fait’ with and connected to events in Denmark;  his children become fluent in another language. It does not sound onerous. OK the role is less grand and they will have a different social circle in which perhaps they are not a ‘big fish’ and maybe this is their objection?

To be better dress up she would need to marry a heir to the throne, not a second son of a queen. She can't compete with Yrma, Kate etc...

Joining an Embassy is not really a soltion for him, as assignments in the Embassies, of any country, are short terms contracts. 2 to 4 years (3 years average). And not sure that his colleagues are thrilled to have a prince as a colleague.

[ralf103]

I’m sure there will be advantages to having a Prince at the Embassy so i can’t see the staff being that bothered to be honest.

[Mariola]

So I do not follow these two at all. For me J+M make even Viktoria look interesting. Jokke is a bit creepy (but of course I do not wish him ill) and Marie doesn’t dress well, or not  enough to catch my interest, so I am not aware where does the conspiracy theory about them being ‘driven out’ come from. Of course if they (or anybody) are being bullied somehow by the press then that is bad. (It sounds like the Daily Fail in the UK, regarding the couple who cannot be mentioned). This move sounds like a good way to prove themselves.

In 2020 the role of constitutional monarch has ‘dwindled’ everywhere to almost nothing  from what I see.  For me it is not a full time job even for one person,  so what are J+M supposed to do for work? To me it is quite sensible to relocate him. At his age it will be more and more difficult to start any new career so this sounds like a good solution for him:  maintaining a link with his father’s homeland; an attachment to the Danish embassy (or I misunderstand this part) keeps him ‘au fait’ with and connected to events in Denmark;  his children become fluent in another language. It does not sound onerous. OK the role is less grand and they will have a different social circle in which perhaps they are not a ‘big fish’ and maybe this is their objection?

To be better dress up she would need to marry a heir to the throne, not a second son of a queen. She can't compete with Yrma, Kate etc...

Joining an Embassy is not really a soltion for him, as assignments in the Embassies, of any country, are short terms contracts. 2 to 4 years (3 years average). And not sure that his colleagues are thrilled to have a prince as a colleague.

For me, dressing well and dressing expensively are often not the same. I do not think Marie has a good sense of style, but that is for me a personal opinion only. 

[BubbaGumpShrimp]

We keep saying "forced to be a farmer", but let's face it, he was given an estate with active farming activities, he was hardly driven out into the field to plough everything himself. I have an acquaintance, indeed a member of the nobility, who is the heir to an estate with a substantial farming operation, run successfully, and while my friend does oversee things and help with farming activities, most of the really gritty work is carried out by people paid to do so.

Sure, the decision was made for Jokke when he was little, so in a way he was pre-ordained/destined for a particular life, but that is also the case with the kingship and Freddles.

He then decided it was not for him, through some business dealings was effectively just handed a lump sum of money for with which to buy his new house, while retaining use of the old one, all perks none of the responsibilities, and free to pursue whatever became his next ambition.

Yes, certainly, they live in gilded cages, and it is strange that we hold with this in democratic times in democratic countries, but the cages are pretty durned gilded. I wish someone would force me to inherit an estate some day. I might even be forced, twist my arm, to go live in Paris for 3 years for it.

It does suck for Marie that someone who is not as pretty as her get more of a spending budget, especially since Marie does maintain some formal functions, and will for a few years more anyhow, that require work clothes, but but she's still paid money to live her life, have wealth, get clothes and wear pretty baubles. The lack of autonomy must be and probably is a drain, but that is part of the basic swap you agree to when you marry into a royal family.

[anastasia beaverhausen]

So I do not follow these two at all. For me J+M make even Viktoria look interesting. Jokke is a bit creepy (but of course I do not wish him ill) and Marie doesn’t dress well, or not  enough to catch my interest, so I am not aware where does the conspiracy theory about them being ‘driven out’ come from. Of course if they (or anybody) are being bullied somehow by the press then that is bad. (It sounds like the Daily Fail in the UK, regarding the couple who cannot be mentioned). This move sounds like a good way to prove themselves.

In 2020 the role of constitutional monarch has ‘dwindled’ everywhere to almost nothing  from what I see.  For me it is not a full time job even for one person,  so what are J+M supposed to do for work? To me it is quite sensible to relocate him. At his age it will be more and more difficult to start any new career so this sounds like a good solution for him:  maintaining a link with his father’s homeland; an attachment to the Danish embassy (or I misunderstand this part) keeps him ‘au fait’ with and connected to events in Denmark;  his children become fluent in another language. It does not sound onerous. OK the role is less grand and they will have a different social circle in which perhaps they are not a ‘big fish’ and maybe this is their objection?

To be better dress up she would need to marry a heir to the throne, not a second son of a queen. She can't compete with Yrma, Kate etc...

Joining an Embassy is not really a soltion for him, as assignments in the Embassies, of any country, are short terms contracts. 2 to 4 years (3 years average). And not sure that his colleagues are thrilled to have a prince as a colleague.

For me, dressing well and dressing expensively are often not the same. I do not think Marie has a good sense of style, but that is for me a personal opinion only. 

While I think you make a very good point about dressing well and dressing expensively, I don’t have any issue with how Marie dresses. And unlike some royals with more resources, she seems to know what looks good on her and what doesn’t. Is there a miss now and then? Sure, but it’s not a common occurrence.

[periwinkle]

We keep saying "forced to be a farmer", but let's face it, he was given an estate with active farming activities, he was hardly driven out into the field to plough everything himself. I have an acquaintance, indeed a member of the nobility, who is the heir to an estate with a substantial farming operation, run successfully, and while my friend does oversee things and help with farming activities, most of the really gritty work is carried out by people paid to do so.

Sure, the decision was made for Jokke when he was little, so in a way he was pre-ordained/destined for a particular life, but that is also the case with the kingship and Freddles.

He then decided it was not for him, through some business dealings was effectively just handed a lump sum of money for with which to buy his new house, while retaining use of the old one, all perks none of the responsibilities, and free to pursue whatever became his next ambition.

Yes, certainly, they live in gilded cages, and it is strange that we hold with this in democratic times in democratic countries, but the cages are pretty durned gilded. I wish someone would force me to inherit an estate some day. I might even be forced, twist my arm, to go live in Paris for 3 years for it.

It does suck for Marie that someone who is not as pretty as her get more of a spending budget, especially since Marie does maintain some formal functions, and will for a few years more anyhow, that require work clothes, but but she's still paid money to live her life, have wealth, get clothes and wear pretty baubles. The lack of autonomy must be and probably is a drain, but that is part of the basic swap you agree to when you marry into a royal family.

I think this is the easy middle class view of lower case royals but reality is mo money mo problems. I don't envy this made to be a farmer business at all because the buck stops with you and if you don't even like being exiled to the furthest reaches of your country to go into a career you don't feel a pull or affection for that is a problem. No Joachim doesn't hurt for his next meal but he seems destined to be a scapegoat. It makes sense that Marie has spoken up as much as possible against this treatment and the numpties back in her new homeland. She really seems to have fallen in love with Denmark and the current situation is probably horrible for the family. Marge is very powerful. It says a lot about the bond Joachim and Marie have that threw it all they seem as tight as possible as a couple.

[Tsarina]

We keep saying "forced to be a farmer", but let's face it, he was given an estate with active farming activities, he was hardly driven out into the field to plough everything himself. I have an acquaintance, indeed a member of the nobility, who is the heir to an estate with a substantial farming operation, run successfully, and while my friend does oversee things and help with farming activities, most of the really gritty work is carried out by people paid to do so.

Sure, the decision was made for Jokke when he was little, so in a way he was pre-ordained/destined for a particular life, but that is also the case with the kingship and Freddles.

He then decided it was not for him, through some business dealings was effectively just handed a lump sum of money for with which to buy his new house, while retaining use of the old one, all perks none of the responsibilities, and free to pursue whatever became his next ambition.

Yes, certainly, they live in gilded cages, and it is strange that we hold with this in democratic times in democratic countries, but the cages are pretty durned gilded. I wish someone would force me to inherit an estate some day. I might even be forced, twist my arm, to go live in Paris for 3 years for it.

It does suck for Marie that someone who is not as pretty as her get more of a spending budget, especially since Marie does maintain some formal functions, and will for a few years more anyhow, that require work clothes, but but she's still paid money to live her life, have wealth, get clothes and wear pretty baubles. The lack of autonomy must be and probably is a drain, but that is part of the basic swap you agree to when you marry into a royal family.

I think this is the easy middle class view of lower case royals but reality is mo money mo problems. I don't envy this made to be a farmer business at all because the buck stops with you and if you don't even like being exiled to the furthest reaches of your country to go into a career you don't feel a pull or affection for that is a problem. No Joachim doesn't hurt for his next meal but he seems destined to be a scapegoat. It makes sense that Marie has spoken up as much as possible against this treatment and the numpties back in her new homeland. She really seems to have fallen in love with Denmark and the current situation is probably horrible for the family. Marge is very powerful. It says a lot about the bond Joachim and Marie have that threw it all they seem as tight as possible as a couple.

as someone that has been both middle and working class, I can definitively say, less money = mo problems too. I don’t envy their position either, but I also realize all of their “problems” pale relative to the problems of others. But, that applies to everyone’s issues then, right, making that a moot point anyway as everyone deserves to be upset regardless of their relative station in life. Joachim and Marie do seem to have a strong bond, so I hope that always stays the same and gets stronger. Marge is getting up in years, which is a scary thought I wonder how this will all pan out for them.

[MarieQueenie]

I can't find the articles about what Marie said. Could you tell me or give me some links ? Thanks