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Author Topic: Ethiopian Airline Crash  (Read 1518 times)
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Elissa

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« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2019, 10:52:21 AM »

The black boxes of the plane have been recovered and sent to Europe for expert analysis

https://af.reuters.com/ar...oditiesNews/idAFL3N2111XZ
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LarLa

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« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2019, 12:56:40 PM »

Its maddening how we're seeing reports that pilots were complaining about problems with the Max8 for months (specifically about the autopilot and nosedives) and it took 2 complete aircraft losses with hundreds of people dead for anything to be done about it. How did the company not let the pilots know about this system in the first place? This really erodes trust in the airline industry.
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genegal43

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« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2019, 03:26:08 PM »

I saw this on an aviation page I follow on facebook.

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In my opinion the defect in Boeing 737..max

The issue with the 737Max started when Boeing's biggest 737 customer, Southwest, wanted a newer more efficient airplane. Boeing killed the 757 and began the Max program. The customer wanted an airplane that wouldn't require any new training or a new type rating. Boeing claimed that the Max was just an updated, more efficient version of it's venerable, proven, workhorse; the classic 737. But the Max wasn't just an updated version of a previously certified airframe. The Max had a new wing and new engines; changing the airframes center of gravity and center of lift. Those characteristics changed the way the airplane flew. So, to make it fly like the current 737-800; Boeing installed a new, secret, 'safety' system called the MCAS. The MCAS was needed to make the airplane fly and feel like the current version 737-800. But it was so secret that Boeing chose not to tell anyone about it. They didn't included it in any maintenance manuals, they didn't include it in any training manuals, they didn't include it in any aircraft operating manuals. They especially didn't tell the pilots about it. The airplane was successful certified as a 737 and no new training was required. A win for Boeing and a win for its biggest 737 customer. With the new flight characteristics the Max might have a proclivity to pitch up under certain flight conditions. To counteract this pitch up moment, Boeing developed and installed the MCAS. The Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System is designed to push the nose or nudge the nose over during a critical pitch up moment. It takes information from computers fed by information from the Angle of Attack vanes. Apparently, the Lion Air crash was caused by faulty information fed to the MCAS. The MCAS pushed the nose over. This caught the pilots by surprise. The airplane was not behaving like they expected or like they were trained to expect. In a effort to arrest this uncommanded, nose over moment, you should be able to disconnect the autopilot and hand fly, manually fly the airplane using your pilotage skills. But, this new secret system was designed to operate in both Auto-flight and manual-flight mode. So even when you are in manual flight mode, if the MCAS is getting false information, it will continue to push you nose over, push your nose down. Runaway trim is something pilots are trained for. That is what Boeing would like to hide behind. That is what Boeing would like to use when it points to pilot error. At least with the Lion Air flight, the passengers and crew were done in by an aircraft system that Boeing chose to keep secret. If @FAA there is nothing wrong with the Max, why has Boeing recently said there is a software update coming out soon. Air France 447, was scheduled to have it's defective pitot tubes replaced when its fatal last flight was scheduled to land in Paris. Just a little too late for 228 passengers and crew? Did the Boeing software update come too late for the 157 passengers and crew on Ethiopian 302
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thecrownjewelthief

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« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2019, 03:29:14 PM »

I live in Washington DC and passed the Boeing office on my way to airport early this morning (before 6am). It was quite lit up compared to the other office buildings around.
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Lady Liebe

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« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2019, 05:06:30 PM »

A quote from the New York Post article this morning:

https://nypost.com/2019/0...37-crashes-may-be-linked/

The acting administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration said Thursday that the agency received new information that the Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets in the deadly Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines flights may have been brought down by the same cause.

“We are much closer to that possibility and that’s why we grounded the airplanes,” Daniel Elwell said on NBC’s “Today” show.

“We got new information yesterday and we acted on it and it is in our minds now a link that is close enough to ground the airplanes,” Elwell said.
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LarLa

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« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2019, 06:32:06 PM »

A quote from the New York Post article this morning:

https://nypost.com/2019/0...37-crashes-may-be-linked/

The acting administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration said Thursday that the agency received new information that the Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets in the deadly Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines flights may have been brought down by the same cause.

“We are much closer to that possibility and that’s why we grounded the airplanes,” Daniel Elwell said on NBC’s “Today” show.

“We got new information yesterday and we acted on it and it is in our minds now a link that is close enough to ground the airplanes,” Elwell said.

I'm Canadian and our Transportation Minister  Marc Garneau said the same thing yesterday when he made the announcement to ground the planes in Canada. Its increasingly looking that this was the case.
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PruNordstrom

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« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2019, 10:42:49 PM »

Other reports are that Southwestern Airlines noticed a problem and their planes (34 of them) were changed to fix it. Part of the fix was installing another monitor instead of the standard single monitor for the system.
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Ghost

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« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 08:18:56 PM »


It seems the MCAS played a determinant role.

“Previous to the Lion Air crash, some pilots flying the 737 MAX were not trained on the MCAS and were not aware of its installation.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.or.../wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#MCAS
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cordtx

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« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 10:50:01 PM »

They were aware of it after the Lion crash but I guess they just hadn’t understood on how to what to do it if mcars apparently tried to bring the nose up ( or down) out of the parameters that it should be doing this.
Even before the Lion crash on that same plane a couple of crews that flew the same plane right before the Lion crashed had some issues but they handled it even not knowing about the MCAS being there.  Why they didn’t pull the plane out of service, I don’t know.
The Ethiopian crew supposedly has been notified and told the issues could happen according to Ethiopian Airlines.
 Not saying any of it was right of Boeing to not emphasize that special training was needed and I think Boeing really fucked up.
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Lille

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« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 10:58:44 PM »

Yes, Boeing really fucked up big time as you mentioned, and they made et even worse when refusing to gound the 737 MAX the first days after the crash last Sunday. It's just sick how they prioritise money over safety. I have lost so much faith in aviation security.
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Ellie

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« Reply #40 on: Today at 08:27:27 AM »

I'm not surprised they wouldn't ground the planes considering American pilots are AFAIK trained to handle these problems. Which shouldn't BE a problem in the first place (the whole issue shouldn't exist! Boeing effed up!), but alas, money is everything.
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Thistle

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« Reply #41 on: Today at 09:38:18 AM »

American pilotes were trained? But not the rest, people of Lyon Air or Ethiopia were not worth of the training?

F*** you Boeing!
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« Reply #42 on: Today at 11:04:04 AM »

American pilotes were trained? But not the rest, people of Lyon Air or Ethiopia were not worth of the training?

F*** you Boeing!

Too right Thistle  Star

I hope Boeing gets sued into bankruptcy.
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Kristallinchen

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« Reply #43 on: Today at 12:20:50 PM »

Apparently there have been two other incidents with Boeing 737 in the last days (one in Munich, one in Sochi.)

Thankfully these times without any more victims.

What Boeing does is downright criminal. From what I've read so far: Obviously the computer blocked the system so that the pilots couldn't switch the autopilot of. Because according to Boeing the autopilot is always right (and of course, but they don't say this, if you assume this to be true you won't need such high trained pilots and can get cheaper ones, which in turn will enhance the benefit of Boeing managers).

Appearantly what to do, if the autopilot is going crazy (what obviously happened) wasn't even in the manuel/training book of the pilots. According to Boeing they needn't to know these things.

They (the pilots) tried to correct the cause, but the autopilot would then correct them again...until finally it crashed.

Not only 737 should be banned. The whole Boeing company should.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:26:40 PM by Kristallinchen » Logged

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cordtx

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« Reply #44 on: Today at 12:34:14 PM »

They can turn the autopilot off.
It was another new system that helped keep the nose of the plane level called MCAS.  And they could turn that off too- several other pilots had turned it off when other problems happened. They just didn’t think or know to do it fast enough
( they had just barely taken off)

The Seattle Times has a good article

 https://www.seattletimes....ed-in-the-lion-air-crash/
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