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Author Topic: Too much water....  (Read 4322 times)
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fairy

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« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2021, 04:42:18 PM »

The rain has been incessant, but what should be mentioned and addressed (but isn't) is that management has been negligent in the past.
Rivers were altered to suit new developement, buildings were erected in zones that sit on springs (A kindergarten in my area was built on such a natural spring, together with really expensive waterproof cement or whites tubs - you can just count the years until this will start to leak and incoming water will erode the foundation), I haven't seen a street sweeper in years, which hints to possibility that the sewer system if not much better maintained is clogging up with debris, sand, old leaves etc. The creek in the little woods around here is not flooded, but the storm brought a big tree down about 3-4 weeks ago and it is jammed under a little bridge, effectively blocking the water from flowing normally, just a bit more rain and the surrounding meadow will be flooded. This also happens in bigger areas...
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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2021, 08:18:16 PM »

The rain has been incessant, but what should be mentioned and addressed (but isn't) is that management has been negligent in the past.
Rivers were altered to suit new developement, buildings were erected in zones that sit on springs (A kindergarten in my area was built on such a natural spring, together with really expensive waterproof cement or whites tubs - you can just count the years until this will start to leak and incoming water will erode the foundation), I haven't seen a street sweeper in years, which hints to possibility that the sewer system if not much better maintained is clogging up with debris, sand, old leaves etc. The creek in the little woods around here is not flooded, but the storm brought a big tree down about 3-4 weeks ago and it is jammed under a little bridge, effectively blocking the water from flowing normally, just a bit more rain and the surrounding meadow will be flooded. This also happens in bigger areas...


As far as I know the Dutch decided to focus more on the rivers after several events regarding the rivers (flooding, breeches in riverdikes etc). Among others for some rivers a sort of waterbassins were created. In other words an area which will fill up in case of a surplus of water. In the Netherlands we have a seperate kind of regional government that is responsible for the water and water managment in that region: https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterschap. Apparently this is known in more countries, but their functions, responsibilities can differ very mu ch.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board
https://en.m.wikipedia.or...Water_board_(Netherlands)
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Cordelia Fitzgerald

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« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2021, 08:35:39 PM »

The rain has been incessant, but what should be mentioned and addressed (but isn't) is that management has been negligent in the past.
Rivers were altered to suit new developement, buildings were erected in zones that sit on springs (A kindergarten in my area was built on such a natural spring, together with really expensive waterproof cement or whites tubs - you can just count the years until this will start to leak and incoming water will erode the foundation), I haven't seen a street sweeper in years, which hints to possibility that the sewer system if not much better maintained is clogging up with debris, sand, old leaves etc. The creek in the little woods around here is not flooded, but the storm brought a big tree down about 3-4 weeks ago and it is jammed under a little bridge, effectively blocking the water from flowing normally, just a bit more rain and the surrounding meadow will be flooded. This also happens in bigger areas...


The suffering and devastation is incomprehensible.  Thanks for this explanation; it seems like management of these things isn't often on people's minds, until it's too late.  Similar in a way to the recent condo collapse in Florida; once the catastrophe occurs it becomes clear how many needs weren't addressed early on, when there was still time.
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2021, 02:40:55 AM »

https://mobile.twitter.co...tatus/1416129690159534089

Prince William about the flooding.
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2021, 09:20:32 AM »

princi, thank you for all the articles and the photos!
I hope you and your loved ones are all ok!
I'm really sorry for all these people, who lost a relative, a friend, their house, their whole life is turned upside down in a horrible way.
This is unimaginable, so much water indeed.

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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2021, 10:08:57 AM »

This is heartbreaking.  Cry Praying Dishers in the Netherlands, Lux, Belgium, Germany are safe. Hug Princi, fairy for the news reports and explanations. We seem to be lurching from one crisis to another as a human race.   Sad
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2021, 10:17:19 AM »

princi, thank you for all the articles and the photos!
I hope you and your loved ones are all ok!
I'm really sorry for all these people, who lost a relative, a friend, their house, their whole life is turned upside down in a horrible way.
This is unimaginable, so much water indeed.



Thank you very much.

My loved ones are okay. In the past I used to live in the affected Dutch area, and I am amazed by the pictures, news and all.

Also horrible the reports about so called ramp toeristen (disaster tourists) and loothers.
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onar

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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2021, 10:58:01 AM »

princi, thank you for all the articles and the photos!
I hope you and your loved ones are all ok!
I'm really sorry for all these people, who lost a relative, a friend, their house, their whole life is turned upside down in a horrible way.
This is unimaginable, so much water indeed.



Thank you very much.

My loved ones are okay. In the past I used to live in the affected Dutch area, and I am amazed by the pictures, news and all.

Also horrible the reports about so called ramp toeristen (disaster tourists) and loothers.
Comparing past and present pictures is always shocking, let alone under these circumstances.
Disaster tourists? Is this a new trend? It sounds super disrespectful. Who would come up with such an idea?
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Principessa

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« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2021, 11:36:57 AM »

princi, thank you for all the articles and the photos!
I hope you and your loved ones are all ok!
I'm really sorry for all these people, who lost a relative, a friend, their house, their whole life is turned upside down in a horrible way.
This is unimaginable, so much water indeed.



Thank you very much.

My loved ones are okay. In the past I used to live in the affected Dutch area, and I am amazed by the pictures, news and all.

Also horrible the reports about so called ramp toeristen (disaster tourists) and loothers.
Comparing past and present pictures is always shocking, let alone under these circumstances.
Disaster tourists? Is this a new trend? It sounds super disrespectful. Who would come up with such an idea?

Apparently disaster tourists aren't new, but get more attention nowadays. A hotelowner in Valkenburg or direct surroundings mentioned he was contacted by people if they could get a room, they wanted to see the situation.

Yesterday a friend of mine went to Limburg for a holiday with her family. Not as a disaster tourist, they had already  booked a holiday house in the South of Limburg. Firstly they contacted the home owner, who said they could come.
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onar

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« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2021, 11:59:55 AM »

princi, thank you for all the articles and the photos!
I hope you and your loved ones are all ok!
I'm really sorry for all these people, who lost a relative, a friend, their house, their whole life is turned upside down in a horrible way.
This is unimaginable, so much water indeed.



Thank you very much.

My loved ones are okay. In the past I used to live in the affected Dutch area, and I am amazed by the pictures, news and all.

Also horrible the reports about so called ramp toeristen (disaster tourists) and loothers.
Comparing past and present pictures is always shocking, let alone under these circumstances.
Disaster tourists? Is this a new trend? It sounds super disrespectful. Who would come up with such an idea?

Apparently disaster tourists aren't new, but get more attention nowadays. A hotelowner in Valkenburg or direct surroundings mentioned he was contacted by people if they could get a room, they wanted to see the situation.

Yesterday a friend of mine went to Limburg for a holiday with her family. Not as a disaster tourist, they had already  booked a holiday house in the South of Limburg. Firstly they contacted the home owner, who said they could come.
That seems the only sensible thing to do.
Disaster tourists... oh my God!
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Hester
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« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2021, 01:30:25 PM »

Here in Australia people went to the bushfire devastated areas for holidays as soon as they could - to help ravaged local economies…
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Nappyolean

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« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2021, 03:52:01 PM »

The rain has been incessant, but what should be mentioned and addressed (but isn't) is that management has been negligent in the past.
Rivers were altered to suit new developement, buildings were erected in zones that sit on springs (A kindergarten in my area was built on such a natural spring, together with really expensive waterproof cement or whites tubs - you can just count the years until this will start to leak and incoming water will erode the foundation), I haven't seen a street sweeper in years, which hints to possibility that the sewer system if not much better maintained is clogging up with debris, sand, old leaves etc. The creek in the little woods around here is not flooded, but the storm brought a big tree down about 3-4 weeks ago and it is jammed under a little bridge, effectively blocking the water from flowing normally, just a bit more rain and the surrounding meadow will be flooded. This also happens in bigger areas...


The suffering and devastation is incomprehensible.  Thanks for this explanation; it seems like management of these things isn't often on people's minds, until it's too late.  Similar in a way to the recent condo collapse in Florida; once the catastrophe occurs it becomes clear how many needs weren't addressed early on, when there was still time.

Cordelia, agreed that the suffering is awful. And to comment on the Florida building, that was because of water too, all the hurricanes bashing it over the years, plus that it’s basically sitting on sane anyway, really close to the ocean.
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Barrie

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« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2021, 09:44:15 PM »

Extreme weather indeed. Where I live we have a major drought and water restrictions.
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anastasia beaverhausen

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« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2021, 12:10:02 AM »

The rain has been incessant, but what should be mentioned and addressed (but isn't) is that management has been negligent in the past.
Rivers were altered to suit new developement, buildings were erected in zones that sit on springs (A kindergarten in my area was built on such a natural spring, together with really expensive waterproof cement or whites tubs - you can just count the years until this will start to leak and incoming water will erode the foundation), I haven't seen a street sweeper in years, which hints to possibility that the sewer system if not much better maintained is clogging up with debris, sand, old leaves etc. The creek in the little woods around here is not flooded, but the storm brought a big tree down about 3-4 weeks ago and it is jammed under a little bridge, effectively blocking the water from flowing normally, just a bit more rain and the surrounding meadow will be flooded. This also happens in bigger areas...


The suffering and devastation is incomprehensible.  Thanks for this explanation; it seems like management of these things isn't often on people's minds, until it's too late.  Similar in a way to the recent condo collapse in Florida; once the catastrophe occurs it becomes clear how many needs weren't addressed early on, when there was still time.

Very true - and what nobody is talking about is that a 2018 report unearthed structural damage in the parking garage and pool deck and a neighboring construction project was built too close and contributed to the overall instability. There is a sister complex to next to Champlain that has a lot of worried residents. Do they stay and hope that rising sea levels and salt air haven’t damaged their building or do they leave and hope for some kind of renumeration for an asset that will be impossible to sell?

I feel awful for them and for the Europeans dealing with this crisis.
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Principessa

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« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2021, 03:48:25 PM »

From a Dutch newssite:

https://nos.nl/collectie/...n-dat-betaalt-zich-nu-uit

We've been giving the water more space since the 1990s, and it's now paying off

It squeaks and creaks along the dykes and quays on the Maas, but for the time being the dykes hold up to the gigantic water masses. No major problems are reported in the Rhine, where high water levels are also measured.

After the floods in 1993 and 1995, a lot of work was done on the rivers to better protect villages and towns against high water. Experts agree: Without that work, the problems would have been even worse.

What has been done around major rivers in recent years?
Rijkswaterstaat has carried out two major projects: Room for the River, which was completed in 2019, and the Maas Works. At Room for the River, space has literally been created for water in dozens of places along the Waal, Nederrijn, IJssel and Lek. Dikes have been moved and raised, among other things, but flood areas have also been widened or lowered so that more water can be absorbed during high water.

Work is still in progress on the Maaswerken. The river has been widened and deepened in many places, but it doesn't stop there, says flood expert Nathalie Asselman of Deltares. "At Ooijen Wanssum (north of Venlo), for example, an old Maasarm has been reactivated so that it can flow with it during high water. That also results in about 50 centimeters lower water levels at that location."





Are those projects now proving themselves?
Yes, say experts. Take the village of Borgharen near Maastricht: it was flooded in 1995, but has now remained dry. A lot has been done in the part of the Meuse between Maastricht and Maasbracht, where the river forms the border with Belgium, says Harold van Waveren, water safety specialist at Rijkswaterstaat. "A lot of soil has been excavated on the banks at more than ten locations over a very long route, to create more space for the water." Channels have also been dug in various places, which now lowers the water levels to one meter. “That really helps.”

Quays have also been constructed around Borgharen, among others. Partly because of this, the village has now remained dry. "There you can see that it worked."

Asselman is also optimistic about the usefulness of all efforts, although nuisance cannot be prevented with such amounts of precipitation as in the past week. "But without Meuse Works, many villages along the Meuse would have been flooded, probably even deeper than in 1993 and 1995."

How long are we safe with this?
The Meuse Works are not yet completed; Completion of the project is planned for 2027. According to Rijkswaterstaat, for example, a secondary channel will be constructed near Maasband and gravel will also be extracted from the Meuse for the time being to give the water more space.

Even then, sitting back is not an option, previously warned Jeroen Aerts, professor of climate and water risks at the VU. Because extreme weather will occur more often, solutions will have to be thought more broadly "at the drawing board". "You can buffer even more water and collect it locally, or protect critical infrastructure better and build less in vulnerable areas. Ultimately, fewer surfaces have to be paved so that the ground can absorb the water. it all has to happen eventually."

So big rivers are being tackled, what about the Geul and the Roer?
The measures taken for rivers such as the Maas and the Rhine have not been taken for the rivers that overflowed their banks in recent days, such as the Geul in Valkenburg. The question is what could be done there, says Deltares expert Asselman. "The situation in Valkenburg is really very different than in Borgharen, for example."

For example, the Valkenburg region is less wide and the Geul flows through the center of the town, instead of around it. A high dike is not an obvious choice there. "That was easier to achieve along the Maas."



RED:
Maas is the Dutch name for the Meuse
Rijn is the Dutch name for the Rhine. In the Netherlands there are several branches of the Rhine, among others Nederrijn (Lower Rhine); IJssel and the main one the Waal.
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