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Author Topic: Queen Elizabeth news and photos  (Read 63131 times)
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Hester
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« Reply #420 on: May 14, 2022, 04:53:54 PM »

She is also just coming off a bout of covid, that is major in someone her age.

I think the optics are not good... can go to an outdoor event looking ok but not Parliament? She can get any assistance to her seat there without being viewed

Truth be told I had similar thoughts…and still feel conflicted about things.  On one hand I know the events are very different and involve very different levels of stress and strain.  On the other hand…

I kinda agree with OC & Princess MS. 

I get that QEII is 96, a widow, frail, mobility impacted ... but, seriously?  The two events being so close together, and able to make all the necessary arrangements to attend the "pleasure" one ... well.  Not good.

But I'm in camp "retire and Regency already" so that's to be expected.   Wink

What bit of “involves a walk”, “involves giving a lengthy speech”, “cannot leave early” did you miss? Along with “I’ve put in 70 years so [expletive] off” or “transition to full retirement”? Along with “fresh from Covid and vulnerable to flu infection in indoor settings”?
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« Reply #421 on: May 14, 2022, 06:03:35 PM »

I get that QEII is 96, a widow, frail, mobility impacted ... but, seriously?  The two events being so close together, and able to make all the necessary arrangements to attend the "pleasure" one ... well.  Not good.

Just because the events were close together doesn’t make them similar. They are vastly different for reasons people have already outlined and they can’t be compared.
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« Reply #422 on: May 14, 2022, 06:10:01 PM »

She is also just coming off a bout of covid, that is major in someone her age.

I think the optics are not good... can go to an outdoor event looking ok but not Parliament? She can get any assistance to her seat there without being viewed

Truth be told I had similar thoughts…and still feel conflicted about things.  On one hand I know the events are very different and involve very different levels of stress and strain.  On the other hand…

I kinda agree with OC & Princess MS. 

I get that QEII is 96, a widow, frail, mobility impacted ... but, seriously?  The two events being so close together, and able to make all the necessary arrangements to attend the "pleasure" one ... well.  Not good.

But I'm in camp "retire and Regency already" so that's to be expected.   Wink

What bit of “involves a walk”, “involves giving a lengthy speech”, “cannot leave early” did you miss? Along with “I’ve put in 70 years so [expletive] off” or “transition to full retirement”? Along with “fresh from Covid and vulnerable to flu infection in indoor settings”?

Well that is a muddled combination... but basically if you’re too fragile to go to Parliament then stay home... for at least a week or several
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« Reply #423 on: May 14, 2022, 07:02:02 PM »

If we follow that logic wouldn't it just be better for Charles to passover the crown straight to William as Charles is 73 years old himself now. Heck if HM hangs on long enough maybe they can just skip straight to George being King and save us all time and money.

That isn't how monarchies work - HM is alive and clearly well based on the horse-show pictures and videos. She has mobility issues so chose not to attend a large scale ceremonial event in which the government's speech was still read and all obligations were fulfilled.Queen Victoria didn't attend the State opening for 6 years after Albert's death - HM has currently missed it exactly three times in the longest British reign ever.
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« Reply #424 on: May 14, 2022, 10:53:35 PM »

She is 96 and last year, after Philipp's death she was finally confronted with her own mortality. She has visibly aged in the last year - she lost her posture, has problems walking and she has lost a lot of weight. She has been very dutiful and eager to do a lot of jobs until recently. If she had been physically able, she would have attended the opening of the parliament and the horse show in full length for sure. She did not.

45 minutes at a horse show (even though she was driven to it) is not very long, especially if you are very passionate about the event (which she was) and if your granddaughter is competing in your late husbands carriage (which she was).

IMO that shows very clearly: She is far from being bed-ridden, but she has clearly to decide now what to do with her very limited energy she has left. I am happy she chose a bit of fun (which she could have cancelled until last minute, so no pressure there) over the offical event of opening the Parliament.

It is also good in a psychological way: She has been there for the past 70 years - the majority of people do not remember another monarch on the British throne. So to give people a pre-view of what will inevitably happen in not too distant future, might ease the transition for everyone and give Charles also the chance of a smooth take-over.
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« Reply #425 on: May 15, 2022, 12:39:02 AM »

She is also just coming off a bout of covid, that is major in someone her age.

I think the optics are not good... can go to an outdoor event looking ok but not Parliament? She can get any assistance to her seat there without being viewed

Truth be told I had similar thoughts…and still feel conflicted about things.  On one hand I know the events are very different and involve very different levels of stress and strain.  On the other hand…

I kinda agree with OC & Princess MS. 

I get that QEII is 96, a widow, frail, mobility impacted ... but, seriously?  The two events being so close together, and able to make all the necessary arrangements to attend the "pleasure" one ... well.  Not good.

But I'm in camp "retire and Regency already" so that's to be expected.   Wink

What bit of “involves a walk”, “involves giving a lengthy speech”, “cannot leave early” did you miss? Along with “I’ve put in 70 years so [expletive] off” or “transition to full retirement”? Along with “fresh from Covid and vulnerable to flu infection in indoor settings”?

I didn't miss any of it, Hester.  How could I fail to.

But particularly, if any part of "I've put in 70 years so eff off" was actually true, then, all the more reason to abdicate (which I know she'll never do). 

And no one said a word about Charles being passed over as too old, when the time comes. 

My point - if there is a point to this conversation! - is, if she continues to make special arrangements for and appear at only the "easier" "shorter" "outdoor" "sporty" et al. events and never comes to the point of, say, using a wheelchair for the "duty" events ... well just that those optics wouldn't be good for her reputation, or for the BRF. 



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« Reply #426 on: May 15, 2022, 12:42:50 AM »

She is also just coming off a bout of covid, that is major in someone her age.

I think the optics are not good... can go to an outdoor event looking ok but not Parliament? She can get any assistance to her seat there without being viewed

Truth be told I had similar thoughts…and still feel conflicted about things.  On one hand I know the events are very different and involve very different levels of stress and strain.  On the other hand…

I kinda agree with OC & Princess MS.  

I get that QEII is 96, a widow, frail, mobility impacted ... but, seriously?  The two events being so close together, and able to make all the necessary arrangements to attend the "pleasure" one ... well.  Not good.

But I'm in camp "retire and Regency already" so that's to be expected.   Wink

What bit of “involves a walk”, “involves giving a lengthy speech”, “cannot leave early” did you miss? Along with “I’ve put in 70 years so [expletive] off” or “transition to full retirement”? Along with “fresh from Covid and vulnerable to flu infection in indoor settings”?

Well that is a muddled combination... but basically if you’re too fragile to go to Parliament then stay home... for at least a week or several

I rarely cavil with a fellow Dishie, but are you in all seriousness questioning the care that surrounds the Queen? And there was nothing “muddled” about my post. I was drawing your attention to the several factors involved. You might not have followed the reports and you may be unaware that the Queen has in fact been staying home for weeks. I just don’t get how you would deny an ancient, dutiful elder unstressful, healing experiences and wilfully send a frail elderly person to be stressed and potentially damaged by one of the toughest gigs the royals do.
Let me elaborate. One of the symptoms of long Covid can be a wiggy vagus nerve. It can cause random rapid heart rate. If that happens at a sports occasion the convalescent can leave. The Queen could not alert her treating practitioners while under the glare of Parliament.
If any carer forced the Queen to attend parliament, as you propose, they would be charged with elder abuse. Depriving an elder of a life-affirming experience would be viewed very poorly by, say, 99.999% of the population. I do think you are in a tiny minority on this.
Rather than just “Bleh, Hester”, can you set out cogent reasoning behind your claim?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 01:50:41 AM by Hester » Logged
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« Reply #427 on: May 15, 2022, 05:58:20 AM »

She is 96 and last year, after Philipp's death she was finally confronted with her own mortality.
(excerpt)
It is also good in a psychological way: She has been there for the past 70 years - the majority of people do not remember another monarch on the British throne. So to give people a pre-view of what will inevitably happen in not too distant future, might ease the transition for everyone and give Charles also the chance of a smooth take-over.

...if she continues to make special arrangements for and appear at only the "easier" "shorter" "outdoor" "sporty" et al. events and never comes to the point of, say, using a wheelchair for the "duty" events ... well just that those optics wouldn't be good for her reputation, or for the BRF.  

Admittedly, this is a different viewpoint from a citizen of a country that broke away almost 246 years ago. The transition in the governing system here can be smooth, rancorous, or something in between every two years. Congress reflects the shifting membership. The president is the executive that works with both houses of congress; it can be productive, a stalemate or something in between. There are no long-term figureheads except for members of the House of Representatives (2-yr term) or Senate (6-yr term) who are elected by their constituents repeatedly. There is no continuous figurehead here as the Queen is to her countries.

She is a focus point of the citizenry (and countries worldwide) as a reminder of the longevity of their country(s), symbol of the endurance of the government, the traditions, the history that brought about its rise as one of the most powerful nations on earth. Smooth transition from one monarch to the next is important because it shows the world that all is well in the governing system.

The Queen is reaching the limits of human longevity. She has given her all to her 'job' and the country. Unseen is the background work she has done to prepare her successor. The Prince of Wales has been/is very active in his role to learn as much as he can about the countries he will rule over as king. His parents have supported him in those efforts and, his mother continues to do so now, How? You take my place in opening of Parliament.

The country will either believe that Charles has been well-educated in his future role -- or not. This gives Charles the opportunity to show his skills and understanding of the role as monarch before his mother dies and he takes her place -- as she has prepared him to do. There is time to fine-tune his skills in that role -- something his mother did not have the opportunity to do, nor her father.

I view the Queen's pull-back from some of her most important traditional roles as a trial-run for the Prince of Wales to experience the full range of his future role/work. It gives him the opportunity to receive counsel from his mother on his 'performance' in the role in her stead, something HM did not have in her first experience of the role. I would think that she wants to do that so her son is an effective monarch able to take in-stride the shifts in government and roles he plays within that.

I applaud the Queen's decision to let the Prince of Wales handle one of the singular, symbolic, important duties of his future role. She is transitioning out of  her 70-yr 'job' and allowing her successor to transition into his new job.

Do I think she could have done it sooner? Probably. There is the lure of being the monarch for 7 decades in the history of the country surpassing all that have come before. It's hard to resist; she is human after all.

The Prince of Wales should be given the opportunity to transition into the role. His mother is giving it to him. She is retreating from the public eye in that role so the focus is shifted to the future of the monarchy. It is a stabilizing influence.

IMHO

Personally, I'm glad that HM has given her son the opportunity to experience this governmental procedure without her presence. It shows confidence in the skills he will need in future.

I hope that she enjoys good health and will transition into a slower pace while letting Charles pick up the reins. It is time.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 06:19:04 AM by PruNordstrom » Logged

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« Reply #428 on: May 15, 2022, 06:27:15 AM »

Gemsheal thinks that 70 years of duty can be wiped out reputation-wise when the Queen takes ongoing convalescent leave. What is she supposed to do? Hide away in her room for fear of being accused of laziness and shirking? I’m gobsmacked by the lack of empathy and understanding. I saw the Queen at an outdoor event on her last CHOGM visit and she had turned up while visibly sick. Promulgating  the idea that QEII would blow off any of her duties is a bit SunshineSachs IMO. The evidence is 100% to the contrary. Can anyone cite an instance of the Queen skiving off? In the last 70 years?
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« Reply #429 on: May 15, 2022, 07:29:34 AM »

My brother, in his job capacity as a news reporter, saw her in the US in conjunction with his job. The Duke was with her. He was very impressed with her knowledge of the location she was visiting, that she knew who he worked for & addressed him in his capacity. He asked questions of her that were put together by the news department and she took time to answer every one with not one exception even though some were controversial. His impression was that no local or national government official was as courteous and repectful of his job to ask questions as she was. He thanked her for her co-operation and time taken to let him interview her. She thanked him for listening. He has never forgotten that reply and that experience. He told me he couldn't imagine being always 'on' no matter  the situation in the way the Queen (and Duke) were in that visit. They were grace under pressure in a way that he hadn't seen before. And, they were far more gracious (even in refusal of questions and invitations) than any local, state or national representatives. It remains a personal highlight and experience in his job.

I spoke to him about the current controversy with Charles attending in her stead, he couldn't image why anyone would object if he has been shadowing her throughout his life. His opinion: the man is ready, let him do the job and let him have the peace and satisfaction of discussing his experience with his mother -- while she still alive. It is, after all, her ultimate satisfaction in seeing him do the job for which he was schooled all his life.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 07:37:42 AM by PruNordstrom » Logged

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« Reply #430 on: May 15, 2022, 11:53:57 AM »

My tuppence worth as a UK taxpayer, admittedly one who would rather have an elected Head of State:

If the Head of State cannot carry out all their constitutional duties, and the opening of a parliamentary session is probably the most important one, the he/she should step aside for someone who can. My compassion for a 96 year old person is separate from my expectations of my HoS. Let her retire and live out her days exactly as she pleases and let the job be done by someone who can fulfil the role in it’s entirety.
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« Reply #431 on: May 15, 2022, 01:16:32 PM »

While it’s normal in some monarchies to abdicate, it’s definitely not normal in others and while I understand the feelings around the subject - as I am also a citizen and tax payer in a monarchy - I also understand that while I would prefer to live in a republic, part of the monarchy in my country is that the monarch serves for their entire life and while we live in modern times where the queen/king is mostly a figure head and the God ordained part is long gone from the whole monarchy package and it would therefore be practical? meaningful? more reasonable? for an ageing monarch to retire, that an essential and perhaps the most meaningful part of the monarchy lies in heart and devotion of the monarch even if it’s fluffy, irrational and hard to pin down. Betty promised to serve her entire life and who are we to question her devotion at this point? It’s not our life after all. I say the same about Marge and Harald and Grumpy Gustaf and it’s totally fair too that Beatrix chose something else and Albert too.
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« Reply #432 on: May 15, 2022, 01:44:32 PM »

I just don’t understand the pile-on against the Queen for deputising - at 96! She made a promise in 1953. How about laying down the pitchforks and waiting for her jubilee anniversary, and whole-heartedly celebrating with her?
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« Reply #433 on: May 15, 2022, 02:24:26 PM »

Gemsheal thinks that 70 years of duty can be wiped out reputation-wise when the Queen takes ongoing convalescent leave. What is she supposed to do? Hide away in her room for fear of being accused of laziness and shirking? I’m gobsmacked by the lack of empathy and understanding. I saw the Queen at an outdoor event on her last CHOGM visit and she had turned up while visibly sick. Promulgating  the idea that QEII would blow off any of her duties is a bit SunshineSachs IMO. The evidence is 100% to the contrary. Can anyone cite an instance of the Queen skiving off? In the last 70 years?

Um, Hester.  Would you mind very much not completely misinterpreting my opinions* as well as (worst of all) indicating that I (and others) lack "empathy and understanding?" 

Thanks ever so.   

Sorry to Maria and others for OT. 

*thank you Citizen, Maria,  PruNordstrom, Miss Marple for expressing their views which are better expressed but dovetail with mine in many ways
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« Reply #434 on: May 15, 2022, 02:40:11 PM »

She is also just coming off a bout of covid, that is major in someone her age.

I think the optics are not good... can go to an outdoor event looking ok but not Parliament? She can get any assistance to her seat there without being viewed

Truth be told I had similar thoughts…and still feel conflicted about things.  On one hand I know the events are very different and involve very different levels of stress and strain.  On the other hand…

I kinda agree with OC & Princess MS.  

I get that QEII is 96, a widow, frail, mobility impacted ... but, seriously?  The two events being so close together, and able to make all the necessary arrangements to attend the "pleasure" one ... well.  Not good.

But I'm in camp "retire and Regency already" so that's to be expected.   Wink

What bit of “involves a walk”, “involves giving a lengthy speech”, “cannot leave early” did you miss? Along with “I’ve put in 70 years so [expletive] off” or “transition to full retirement”? Along with “fresh from Covid and vulnerable to flu infection in indoor settings”?

Well that is a muddled combination... but basically if you’re too fragile to go to Parliament then stay home... for at least a week or several

I rarely cavil with a fellow Dishie, but are you in all seriousness questioning the care that surrounds the Queen? And there was nothing “muddled” about my post. I was drawing your attention to the several factors involved. You might not have followed the reports and you may be unaware that the Queen has in fact been staying home for weeks. I just don’t get how you would deny an ancient, dutiful elder unstressful, healing experiences and wilfully send a frail elderly person to be stressed and potentially damaged by one of the toughest gigs the royals do.
Let me elaborate. One of the symptoms of long Covid can be a wiggy vagus nerve. It can cause random rapid heart rate. If that happens at a sports occasion the convalescent can leave. The Queen could not alert her treating practitioners while under the glare of Parliament.
If any carer forced the Queen to attend parliament, as you propose, they would be charged with elder abuse. Depriving an elder of a life-affirming experience would be viewed very poorly by, say, 99.999% of the population. I do think you are in a tiny minority on this.
Rather than just “Bleh, Hester”, can you set out cogent reasoning behind your claim?

Gem has said it all and frankly I have no idea on what basis you came to any conclusion about what I might think

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« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 02:48:18 PM by Princess MS » Logged
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