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Isabel

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« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2022, 12:16:10 PM »

I think many problems with patronages is that way too many royal institutions take on them for the sake of it without the capacity to give them time for hard work while developing a serious relationship with the people they represent.  It's all for show in taking on "social issues".  Couple of visits, lots of smiles, a small speech and the work is done.  Tick and to the next cause.

One of the things I love about Letizia is that she has very few patronages but the ones she has, she truly works for.  Genetic rare disabilities and health and nutrition being the top ones.  She's also a huge embassador for culture and reading books ....she's certainly received enough crap from the "press" in Spain for her eclectic taste.


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Maria
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« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2022, 12:39:29 PM »

I know I see Mary and Mette Marit differently as many here.  But then, I don't trust the 4th power, the press, at all.  They are as corrupt as the institutions of the country they sell news for and create whatever impression they want when it comes from the top .

It’s somewhat ironic to me that you mention Mary and MM as - shall we call it misunderstood? - royals when they are among the two female royals who get the most gentle and favourable press of all. Certainly the Danish press does very little but collaborate with the DRF, constantly promoting Mary as the best thing since sliced bread. If one is truly critical of the (Danish) press, one will quickly become sceptical about the DRF and especially Fred and Mary because they rarely get anything negative written about them, just like they get praised - Fred included - for being the best royals to ever royal.

As a disher it’s a thing of beauty really but as a Dane it has turned me into a republican.
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« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2022, 01:03:32 PM »

I have to say I think there are lots of royals around the world who wish they were treated by the press like Mary is. Personally I don't get it.  There is never any questioning, never mind criticism of her or the RF. I think maybe Daisy gets that sort of attention as she never really ever does do anything controversial. But it intrigues me that M&F get the same treatment as I would say they do a lot more that deserved questioning.

I really liked MM at first but god that woman is lazy! I know she now has a horrendous illness that will shorten her life but she hasn't changes from marriage to diagnosis IMO. I think she rode the wave of being "the modern royal married-in, single mum etc" and just stopped. TBH MM (and Haakon to a lesser degree), M&F are the same - they all take being in a RF for its advantages but not the hard work, duties or public service that usually is expected for it. What is it Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother once said "Work is the rent you pay for the room you occupy on earth". Mary, Freds and MM are in arrears
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Isabel

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« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2022, 01:25:32 PM »

I know I see Mary and Mette Marit differently as many here.  But then, I don't trust the 4th power, the press, at all.  They are as corrupt as the institutions of the country they sell news for and create whatever impression they want when it comes from the top .

It’s somewhat ironic to me that you mention Mary and MM as - shall we call it misunderstood? - royals when they are among the two female royals who get the most gentle and favourable press of all. Certainly the Danish press does very little but collaborate with the DRF, constantly promoting Mary as the best thing since sliced bread. If one is truly critical of the (Danish) press, one will quickly become sceptical about the DRF and especially Fred and Mary because they rarely get anything negative written about them, just like they get praised - Fred included - for being the best royals to ever royal.

As a disher it’s a thing of beauty really but as a Dane it has turned me into a republican.

I take your point Maria, I think both of us are coming from opposite sides in the treatment of royal consorts where the press is concerned but are very much on point how much power the press has in creating a narrative for the public..

While Letizia has gone thru hell and back with the press in Spain, Mary has been, as you say, being promoted as fabulous.  It only emphasises that the press does what is told by the tentacles of power of the head of state. In Denmark the press collaborates with the DRF because that's in their interests and in Spain they made Letizia as awful as possible to hide Juan Carlos out of control illegal dealings and personal life from the public.  

It's all the bloody same.  And yes, the more I hear in posts like yours, the more republican I become except I genuinely think Felipe and Letizia are doing a great job.

ETA typos



 
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Konradin

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« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2022, 02:53:02 PM »

The one encounter with Maxima was in New York at the UN, Mary there too. The other one was in Denmark with both Mary and Marie. I believe with Mary it was at a hospital. I don't recall much about the meeting with Marie, only that the person described her as exhausting and a bit annoying.
I do believe that Mary's description somewhat fit. The way the person meeting her described her, I was reminded of the "Holden commodore" comment: bland, somewhat reliable and not very impressive.

Máxima makes me think, and perhaps is not even and opinion but a prejudice, she is very at ease in her position, and on regards to the Dutch people, even despite all the faux-pas they did, e.g. the houses abroad, going on holidays during COVID, etc. But the monarchy is highly respected, and also her husband feels that way about her too since let's be honest... Trix is the brains of the family, WA isn't.

Mary: while it is funny to read how you snark at her, and all the times she basically f... up, I don't feel she is that integrated into tha family despite appearances, they don't seem close enough as Daisy is with both Benedikta and A-M, Fred does not even look at her nowadays, while Jokke and Marie seem pretty physical. Mary being shy, and insecure speaks volumes about how she feels even after almost 2 decades in Denmark. On the other hand, she wasn't remarkable by any standard, no career whatsoever, nothing to show. Máxima, on the other hand, managed to get herself a position in NY's system, at a big bank, even if was a bit inflated... yes, she got it.

Marie: Leaving aside that I never cared for either her or Jokke much, I agree with others that speaking French all the time to people that might not get it might seem annoying while I don't think Danish is any easy. Plus, it makes sense she is engaging for she worked in hotel management as I did back in the day, the whole area requires to be engaging, open, hands-on, of course she is that way.

This somehow doesn't surprise me. I'm just an armchair observer but such an analysis supports my feeling that Mary is a very insecure person and Maxima has agency and is well aware of her status. This can be good and bad of course. Good because Maxima comes across better in pictures and PR and it seems directly inverse of her self awareness in reality. I can see Mary being timid in real life and coming across as stuck up which is an accusation leveled at lots of insecure people. Also the perception of the observer should be taken into consideration. I used to work with a bossy bitch but she was one of the best coworkers in a way because expectations were clear and she was not cruel even though younger people would have preferred her warm and fuzzy. She knew who she was and what she wanted and didn't play games but you definitely had to be on your toes.
This, Máxima knows her place, and position, she is well secure in hers, and managed to carve a name on her own inside the royal net, working with the UN, doing the micro credits and all that, and also, something most royal partners had troubles with, she managed very well her father's past in the junta here. It was a huge issue at first but she got that one really well. An acquaintance's sister went to Northlands with Máxima, they were in the same grade, plus, this man's mother was one of Máxima's sister, and he told me both his mother and sister said as much: she is driven. Driven, again, in women could be wrongly read as bitchy.

If asked to describe Mary in one word, it would probably be 'brittle'.  There's a nervy, wanting-everything-to-be-perfect, wanting-to-be-liked aspect to her.  She's rarely, if ever, relaxed.  It's as if at any given moment, someone could out her as undeserving.

I used to really like Max - I liked how she could go from (seeming) very sincere at tragedies to really carrying the big tiaras to being very comfortable around anyone.  There's been a few big missteps though, there's a lot of entitlement.  Trying to escape Covid regs that the rest of the country had to abide by, the business with the holiday home etc.  Also, not to bash a child, but Alexia does grind my gears somewhat - however, I put a huge amount of that on her parents.  I always side-eyed the very lazy stereotyping of her behaviour and character as her being the "Latina one".
Isn’t it funny how we all see the same  people so differently, because if you asked me in a blind poll who I saw as “brittle” or “nervy, wanting everything to be perfect”, the person who would first come to mind to me is Letizia. I always think she looks super tense.

Some media outlets tried to 'portrait' Leti this way, a photographer said media was more interested at the pictures of her not smiling  Wink.  I actually found Leti a bit sloppy, although not as sloppy as Max. Leti often did what she wanted instead of playing by the book of a 'perfect' royal consort  Grin.  Max's live footage was also  more normal than her pictures of laughing and showing all her teeth  Wink.

I personally have never met Letizia, but colleagues have, and they describe kind of a mixture of „sloppy“ and „disciplined“. With her „behind the scenes“ stuff, she was incredibly messy, leaving stuff lying around in ALL places expecting others to clean up. But she knew what she wanted and how exactly she wanted it, including having you on a countdown like „ we‘ll (do this and that) in three - three… two… one.. NOW!“
I used to dislike her hard until the drama with Juan Carlos I was out, and then all the family issues were exposed. At that point I have the "AAHHHH, NOW I GET IT" moment where I say, right, this is why this woman was so unease in her position, shabby, reserved, uninterested, she was basically fed up with her in-laws and the grey men of the institution. Plus, after the abdication there was a huge change for the better. I also think Letizia has a very clear personality, she will not be silenced nor choose to be if she feels she has to talk, which, again, I like but I get why some people won't, especially in some very conservative Spanish circles.

If asked to describe Mary in one word, it would probably be 'brittle'.  There's a nervy, wanting-everything-to-be-perfect, wanting-to-be-liked aspect to her.  She's rarely, if ever, relaxed.  It's as if at any given moment, someone could out her as undeserving.

I used to really like Max - I liked how she could go from (seeming) very sincere at tragedies to really carrying the big tiaras to being very comfortable around anyone.  There's been a few big missteps though, there's a lot of entitlement.  Trying to escape Covid regs that the rest of the country had to abide by, the business with the holiday home etc.  Also, not to bash a child, but Alexia does grind my gears somewhat - however, I put a huge amount of that on her parents.  I always side-eyed the very lazy stereotyping of her behaviour and character as her being the "Latina one".
Isn’t it funny how we all see the same  people so differently, because if you asked me in a blind poll who I saw as “brittle” or “nervy, wanting everything to be perfect”, the person who would first come to mind to me is Letizia. I always think she looks super tense.

Some media outlets tried to 'portrait' Leti this way, a photographer said media was more interested at the pictures of her not smiling  Wink.  I actually found Leti a bit sloppy, although not as sloppy as Max. Leti often did what she wanted instead of playing by the book of a 'perfect' royal consort  Grin.  Max's live footage was also  more normal than her pictures of laughing and showing all her teeth  Wink.

I personally have never met Letizia, but colleagues have, and they describe kind of a mixture of „sloppy“ and „disciplined“. With her „behind the scenes“ stuff, she was incredibly messy, leaving stuff lying around in ALL places expecting others to clean up. But she knew what she wanted and how exactly she wanted it, including having you on a countdown like „ we‘ll (do this and that) in three - three… two… one.. NOW!“

Hear hear!

 Champagne

As for MM, I understand why she does not do almost anything but now but before that...  Snare

I know I see Mary and Mette Marit differently as many here.  But then, I don't trust the 4th power, the press, at all.  They are as corrupt as the institutions of the country they sell news for and create whatever impression they want when it comes from the top .

It’s somewhat ironic to me that you mention Mary and MM as - shall we call it misunderstood? - royals when they are among the two female royals who get the most gentle and favourable press of all. Certainly the Danish press does very little but collaborate with the DRF, constantly promoting Mary as the best thing since sliced bread. If one is truly critical of the (Danish) press, one will quickly become sceptical about the DRF and especially Fred and Mary because they rarely get anything negative written about them, just like they get praised - Fred included - for being the best royals to ever royal.

As a disher it’s a thing of beauty really but as a Dane it has turned me into a republican.

I take your point Maria, I think both of us are coming from opposite sides in the treatment of royal consorts where the press is concerned but are very much on point how much power the press has in creating a narrative for the public..

While Letizia has gone thru hell and back with the press in Spain, Mary has been, as you say, being promoted as fabulous.  It only emphasises that the press does what is told by the tentacles of power of the head of state. In Denmark the press collaborates with the DRF because that's in their interests and in Spain they made Letizia as awful as possible to hide Juan Carlos out of control illegal dealings and personal life from the public.  

It's all the bloody same.  And yes, the more I hear in posts like yours, the more republican I become except I genuinely think Felipe and Letizia are doing a great job.

ETA typos



 
I also feel

In an 8 years' reign they did a lot to weather the front storm that came their way pretty soon. JC's issues, and those are plenty, having an in-law in jail, and an infanta living mostly abroad, family issues with Sofía, all the critics for Letizia, recession, covid, and let's not forget Spain had very unstable governments for a while, and that didn't happen so long ago, and during all that time the King very hard tried to be a beacon of continuity, to broaden the gap between parties without doing anything unconstitutional, etc. They are both hard working and as I said before, Letizia felt enough at ease as to start wearing expensive attires, and even the family big jewels which she:
a) wasn't granted access
b) didn't care before

Every country has either the monarchy it can (Spain and Belgium) or wants (Britain/Sweden/Norway). This has been very interesting to read, especially after months of not reading the board.
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