12 year old girl was stabbed to death by 13 and 12 year old girls

[fairy]

There are several cases of young offenders, but afaIk in Germany this case involves the youngest.

I do pity the parents of the killers, I wonder how you survive that?
Parents of murdered children can find some sort of acceptance and peace, it is a terrible and long road to it, but with good counseling and a lot of support, parents and families can survive this. And my heart bleeds for them.
But how do you cope with the fact that your child is a monster? How do you distance yourself? How do you cope with the fact, that you still love your child, but can't help him/her.
I cannot for the life of me imagine to abandon my child, nothing my children could ever do would stop me from loving them, so how on earth do these parents go on?

[Ghost]

There are several cases of young offenders, but afaIk in Germany this case involves the youngest.

I do pity the parents of the killers, I wonder how you survive that?
Parents of murdered children can find some sort of acceptance and peace, it is a terrible and long road to it, but with good counseling and a lot of support, parents and families can survive this. And my heart bleeds for them.
But how do you cope with the fact that your child is a monster? How do you distance yourself? How do you cope with the fact, that you still love your child, but can't help him/her.
I cannot for the life of me imagine to abandon my child, nothing my children could ever do would stop me from loving them, so how on earth do these parents go on?

Of course they will love them and support them, now more than ever. Their heart is heavy, but they have their child.

The parents of the victim - they go to bed, under the warm covers knowing that their child is under the cold and heavy slab of stone. They’ve kissed the cold cheeks, they’ve hold the rigid hand, they called her name and her face didn’t move. Unbearable. I hope for them that she was not an only child.

[fairy]

You can have five kids and you mourn the one that is dead to no end.
People tend to forget that the siblings suffer enormously just as well. Not only do they grieve for their sister, but they will also lose a bit of their parents.
I can't imagine the pain of losing one of mine.
But to imagine being completely helpless, to ask myself over and over again, what went wrong, what I could have done, to continue to see my child in this horrid condition must be a wound that never heals, never dulls.

[loveofenglishtradition]

There are several cases of young offenders, but afaIk in Germany this case involves the youngest.

I do pity the parents of the killers, I wonder how you survive that?
Parents of murdered children can find some sort of acceptance and peace, it is a terrible and long road to it, but with good counseling and a lot of support, parents and families can survive this. And my heart bleeds for them.
But how do you cope with the fact that your child is a monster? How do you distance yourself? How do you cope with the fact, that you still love your child, but can't help him/her.
I cannot for the life of me imagine to abandon my child, nothing my children could ever do would stop me from loving them, so how on earth do these parents go on?

Right, that is a question me and my husband discussed. He is of the opinion that he would never abandon his child, Iam not so sure about it. Your child is a "monster", and the whole city where they live, friends ,neighbours are hating you.

But, what is coming up is by a lot of psycholigists being interviewed, is the fact that something went wrong in that family of the girl who stabbed this friend to death, so the parents have to think about that. You cannot tell me that a child who is being cared for in a loving and attentive family develops into such a monster.
I just cannot believe it.

If I imagine that my daughter or grandchild had been murdered in such a brutal and cruel way, honestly I could never ever forgive that girl who did this. These girls did not only kill a 12 year old, they also destroyed three families.

[Miss Marple]

I am mortified about this story, espeially it was not a spur of the moment thing - the must have had a plan, brought a knife, pretended everything was fine afterwards and stabbed the poor kid 42 times or something - means: While she was dying, they kept stabbing her. How cruel do you have to be?

No, these are not normal kids, even though the press wants to make us believe they are.

I used to work in a school with really rough kids and the extend they did not feel any empathie was appaling - but very often the parents were the same. We had kids in stinking rags - because the parents would not wash clothes. We had kids who were totally hungry - the parents spend the money on alcohol, the pet snake or other things. These neglected kids used to do odd things as well and feel no compassion - like they were not shown any compassion.

[fairy]

There are extrinsic factors for mental illnesses and there are intrinsic and we know pityfully little about it.
Not every child born into a dysfunctional family turns Ed Gein and not every Ed Gein was born into a dysfunctional family.
Obviously something went terribly, horribly wrong, but the amount of shock and disbelief in both their environment and the greater public shows that such things are incredibly uncommon and unexpected. 

[GoodGollyMissMolly]

Reminds me of the James Bulger tragedy. That still haunts me.

I do wonder what will happen with these girls in Germany. It’s so hard to know what to do with young murderers. Just recently in America there was a case where a six year old shot his teacher in the head (she survived, but I have no idea how badly injured she is, it could be very bad) and even though America often prosecutes children as adults in this case they agreed the boy is way under the age of criminal responsibility. He may not even know how to tie his shoes yet.

AFAIK the six year old is still in psychiatric custody. There were problems galore with the child before he shot the teacher, who is thankfully recovering well.

I had no idea about Anne Perry's background.

He did not shoot her in the head.

[Lady Liebe]

Reminds me of the James Bulger tragedy. That still haunts me.

I do wonder what will happen with these girls in Germany. It’s so hard to know what to do with young murderers. Just recently in America there was a case where a six year old shot his teacher in the head (she survived, but I have no idea how badly injured she is, it could be very bad) and even though America often prosecutes children as adults in this case they agreed the boy is way under the age of criminal responsibility. He may not even know how to tie his shoes yet.

AFAIK the six year old is still in psychiatric custody. There were problems galore with the child before he shot the teacher, who is thankfully recovering well.

I had no idea about Anne Perry's background.

He did not shoot her in the head.

She was shot in the hand and chest - the shot went through her hand into her chest.

[fairy]

If a child of his age had access to a loaded gun, there is someone else I would like to see answering in front of a judge.

[Lady Liebe]

It's his mother's gun - legally purchased. The mother claims it was in a locked box on a high shelf.

One of his parentS were supposed to attend school with him each day. The day he shot the teacher was the first day neither parent was present.

We had a shooting at a High School in Denver yesterday. A boy was required to be patted down before school each day because of problems that led to his expulsion from another school. Administrators had to pat him down because the School Board removed Police Officers from the schools in 2020. He pulled a gun and shot two administrators, and was found dead by suicide later in the day.

[anneboleyn]

If a child of his age had access to a loaded gun, there is someone else I would like to see answering in front of a judge.

Well, the teacher is suing the school. There were rumors all morning that he had a gun and nothing was done.

https://people.com/crime/...-plans-sue-school-lawyer/

[Lady Liebe]

If a child of his age had access to a loaded gun, there is someone else I would like to see answering in front of a judge.

Well, the teacher is suing the school. There were rumors all morning that he had a gun and nothing was done.

https://people.com/crime/...-plans-sue-school-lawyer/

Yep, administrators were told three times he had a gun, searched him once but didn't find it so it was fluffed off. Should have looked harder! Reputedly, he previously chased and threatened to whip classmates with his belt and slammed his teachers cell phone on the desk and broke it.

Curiously, the statement given against charging him was not because of his age but that he could not understand the legal proceedings.

I hope he can be diagnosed and treated, and that he is not simply passed on to another school like the shooter in Denver.

[loveofenglishtradition]

Coming back to the case of murdered Luise. This case is a huge thing in Germany . More details are coming up, leaks of police maybe? What also makes people frustrated here is that the courts/police don't tell the public what will happen to those murder girls and their families. Everybody wants to know what will be done. No press releases about the motive, about the procedure of the case, which is unusual. And all, because of the protection of those underage girls.
Many families want answers, they are afraid of the future of their kids, there are by the way some more cases of brutal attacks from 12 year old girls to another girl, and they even put a video of their brutal attacks on social media.

I think there has to be a political discussion about our society involving schools, teachers and parents. With all the access to social media and in many cases no control by the parents who knows what these kids are thinking and how much they are getting involved in dangerous fantasies?

Speculations are growing the more than public authorities refuse to talk about it. There are leaks and more infos by foreign newspapers, such as DailyMail and Mirror. I am for protection of the names of the accused, but the public should get some information about what is happening to those girls as there will be no prosecution and the case is closed for further investigation.
The "Jugendamt" (juvenile authority) is in charge now, and it seems they are helpless when it comes to speaking to the press.

The most irritating detail was published today, one of the girls did some research about the law system , e.g. from what age a person is made responsible for a serious crime, which in this country is starting at 14. That shows that they had a plan to murder their friend. It was also reported that they first tried to suffocate her with a plastic bag, and when that didn't work they used the knife.

So nobody can tell me that they didn't know what serious crime they performed. It was all planned, and that should be taken into consideration.

I must admit that this case is causing me sleepless nights, maybe also because it happened so close to where I live. Freudenberg is a small beautiful town,  about an hour drive from the city where I live. You would not think that such a horrible brutal act would ever happen in this idyllic little town.

Living in a big city where we live, crime has become a daily business, sad to say. It is frightening to realise that things like that can happen everywhere.

[Lovis]

The most horrible thing is how they obviously planned the crime and how often they attacked the girl. It was no sudden reaction, no sudden aggressive emotional outburst (which would have been horrible enough) - no, it was coldly planned and executed. At least one of the girls must have serious mental issues. The night before, the victim stayed with her over night. They probably had a fun night together. After the crime she made a phone call to the victim's parents. How cold she had to be!
I can imagine some kind of toxic relationship with the second girl who "helped" her though.


 

[Astrid]

The most horrible thing is how they obviously planned the crime and how often they attacked the girl. It was no sudden reaction, no sudden aggressive emotional outburst (which would have been horrible enough) - no, it was coldly planned and executed. At least one of the girls must have serious mental issues. The night before, the victim stayed with her over night. They probably had a fun night together. After the crime she made a phone call to the victim's parents. How cold she had to be!
I can imagine some kind of toxic relationship with the second girl who "helped" her though.

Sounds like a sociopath. Probably the only way forward at such a young age is therapy and a new start for the two families in another place. Locking someone up, even if there was a facility for girls that young, would cost the citizens millions.