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Author Topic: Madeleine's news  (Read 1321377 times)
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Miss Marple

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« Reply #4965 on: April 28, 2021, 08:30:32 PM »

They are not needed. They want to be needed (my opinion). Look at the Dutch RF - Constantijn does very occasionally royal work, he leads a quiet life - and everything runs smoothly (well, Wax made a lot of mistakes that cost them popularity, but that is their own fault). The DRF just "got rid" of Jokke and Marie even though they were assets (more than CP and Sofia) - they are not needed. Same in Belgium - two working royals, things run fine.

I think we should not underestimate Chris' part in the marriage. Chris does not speak Swedish, he never lived in Sweden, he did not take a title, he agreed to the televised wedding (but we can assume he really hated every minute of it) and he avoids limelight wherever he can. He tried to give it a go with the wedding and the strange "instead of video" engagement clip but created only bad press. So I think he very early decided "it was his wives business and not his" and his goal might be that his kids are successful private citizens (like his own position).

Chris -despite being in very posh boarding schools - works for a living and does not draw attention. I can't see him wanting his children running to Sweden every five minutes and become public figures there. Viewing the current situation like a business man: it would be totally unnecessary for them to be dragged into the limelight because (1) their aunt will be queen, not their mom, (2) there are a heir and spare + (3) there is a brother in front of Madde in line that lives in Sweden, does public engagement and has a very eager wife (and three boys that can fill in in years to come if needed). So there is no space. The best they can do is to make sure the kids have an education and manage to be financially independent. They might visit aunt Viccan in Sweden occasionally, but, lets face it, English will be their first language and they are raised in the US, not in Sweden, which will make them Swedish-American.

Another point: I think the connection between Madde and Chris might be their childhoods. Chris was enrolled in boarding school when he was eight or so (not entirely sure). His family situation is a bit complicated (with half-siblings on both sides) so let's assume he was missing "normal family life" - most likely as much as Madeleine. Silvia and CG might be great monarchs but surely not the parents of the year. So Madde might want to create a different family life for her children.

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anneboleyn

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« Reply #4966 on: April 28, 2021, 08:51:56 PM »

They are not needed.

I disagree - they will need to be available for a bit yet. It will likely be 15 years before Victoria and Dan's children are ready to step up and help. In the meantime, once Victoria is queen, she will need CP and Sofia to help out a bit.
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Miss Marple

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« Reply #4967 on: April 28, 2021, 09:55:06 PM »

That depends on the concept of the monarchy. Generally the monarchies are becoming more "down to earth and less pompous". If Sweden was a republic one president would do the job that six adult people are doing at the moment (with a population of roughly 10 million). The German president (who is mainly there for representing) has 83 million people to take care of and is doing just fine (and if you asked me if he was married or not - I would assume yes, but I am not familiar with his wife = she is not doing a lot of work, at least none that I particularly notice).

There can be also an "oversaturation" with royal work. I believe Victoria and Daniel would manage just fine without anyone else. Look at Norway: Harald is not well and has slowed down, Hakoon is not a workhorse, MM does not need to be mentioned and so it is Sonia and Hakoon running the show (well, you can count Hakoon and Harold as one full working royal). It works fine.
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anneboleyn

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« Reply #4968 on: April 28, 2021, 11:01:08 PM »

That's true, and I think it will be interesting to see the impact COVID has on monarchies moving forward. Before a royal would visit maybe 3-4 organizations a week, now they can do that in a day over Zoom.
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Lovis

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« Reply #4969 on: April 29, 2021, 09:25:01 AM »

That's true, and I think it will be interesting to see the impact COVID has on monarchies moving forward. Before a royal would visit maybe 3-4 organizations a week, now they can do that in a day over Zoom.

Interesting thought.

@ Miss Marple: I'm sure you are right. On the other side: The Royal Family is a "brand". If the german Bundespršsident visits a city or another country nobody really cares. The swedish Royals are a selling point for the country. IMO this is the main reason Sweden still has a monarchy. Why cut it down if you don't have to? Besides: you never know what will happen with CG and Silvia the next few years. Dan has his health issues. So it's smart IMO keeping a "spare" who can help.
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Maria
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« Reply #4970 on: April 29, 2021, 09:32:34 AM »

They are not needed.

I disagree - they will need to be available for a bit yet. It will likely be 15 years before Victoria and Dan's children are ready to step up and help. In the meantime, once Victoria is queen, she will need CP and Sofia to help out a bit.

Nah. Sweden might be twice the size of Norway but the NRF are more popular and they work well with only an old, sickly king, the queen, the crown prince and a sickly crown princess. Denmark gets on just fine with an elderly queen, a lazy crown prince, a crown princess and the odd supporting members.

In all three Scandinavian monarchies itís already been decided that in the future only the heir will be a working royal so the writing is on the wall. CP and Sofia is clinging on because heís daddyís favourite and they arenít keen on stepping back. They have understood the development though - thatís why they teased they might move abroad. They know they arenít needed.
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Lovis

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« Reply #4971 on: April 29, 2021, 10:03:58 AM »

They are not needed.

I disagree - they will need to be available for a bit yet. It will likely be 15 years before Victoria and Dan's children are ready to step up and help. In the meantime, once Victoria is queen, she will need CP and Sofia to help out a bit.

Nah. Sweden might be twice the size of Norway but the NRF are more popular and they work well with only an old, sickly king, the queen, the crown prince and a sickly crown princess. Denmark gets on just fine with an elderly queen, a lazy crown prince, a crown princess and the odd supporting members.

In all three Scandinavian monarchies itís already been decided that in the future only the heir will be a working royal so the writing is on the wall. CP and Sofia is clinging on because heís daddyís favourite and they arenít keen on stepping back. They have understood the development though - thatís why they teased they might move abroad. They know they arenít needed.

Really? I missed that. Good for them, but TBH I doubt that will ever happen.
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Miss Marple

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« Reply #4972 on: April 29, 2021, 10:17:40 AM »

Genereally speaking the king/queen of the future has to compete with the prospect of an elected president/representative (in Germany the president does the representation, the chancellor does the actual political work) who is usually experienced, did other jobs well before and has a solid education.

The king/queen will be expected to act like a "normal business person" and no extravagants will be tolerated. You see that in the upheaval the Greece trip of Wax caused. 50 years ago they would have gotten away with it. Not so today. People nowadays think more business like so they will look at the monarch with a price-performance ratio idea rather than a romantic idea (unless they have formed a long emotional bond with the monarch or there is a valid reason for not performing well (sickness, old age)).

I can see Frodo getting problems in future for being so invisible. He has big shoes to fill because Marge with 80+ still looks very regal in ball gowns and she just fills the position perfectly. Max and Wax have also to be careful, because their grace period is long up and they have created a picture of tone-deaf entitled people for themselves (and sadly, the kids partly are kind of fitting into that narrative). In Norway things are quiet because Harald and Sonia are doing a very lovely job, it might change when Hakoon ascends the throne and MM is hardly ever visible or turns up with her little house in the prairie costumes + spectacles to an official event. In short: All the Scandinavian monarchies will face a change and will be way more often on the test bench than before. So far people are quiet because they are happy with Harald and Marge, not with the crown princess.

CG is -in my opinion- the weakest of the present Scandinavian monarchs. Getting rid of Madeleine but keeping Sofia and CP was a silly decision. From the "use factor" - Maddes big plus point was her looks, especially in official events like the Nobels. TBH that is Victoria's downfall, she looks good in ball gowns but her normal a bit. clothes sadly follow MM's example bit. Victoria and Dan always come across like the nice people from next door with a terrible fashion sense when it comes to formal work clothes. They are lacking the glam factor a bit.
CP and Sofia have no real strong points, TBH, often they are there and nobody knows exactly why. It would have been cleverer (and fairer) to give develop Daniel and Victoria to their full potential and occasionally have Madeleine and CP (not Chris + Sofia) helping out. TBH Sofia does nothing for the SRF - even though she seems to be well-liked.

I think Chris saw through that. He was educated in Eton and surely has an idea how society in this layer words and he has rubbed shoulders with different people. I totally agree with his point that he (1) did not get involved in the SRF as it was flocking a dead horse for him (2) most likely the idea that people get positions because they are born into them are a bit strange to him as the finance world success is completely based on performance and nothing else (3) his kids better grow up freely and unknown in Florida than being the "grandchildren/ nephews and nieces" of the Swedish monarch and be in the public spotlight in Sweden all the time. Plus: Sweden is a lovely beautiful country but the US surely gives them more career options.




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Maria
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« Reply #4973 on: April 29, 2021, 10:25:29 AM »

Just a comment about MM - she might pass away because of her illness, leaving just Haakon and IA as working royals, perhaps with a bit of support from SM. But I donít get a feeling big royal families are needed anymore. With a few exceptions they are all making the ďroyal familyĒ smaller. CG has also started to do so. Too late perhaps but really, itís good support from Madeleine to so obviously just be there when sheís needed IMO.
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Princess MS

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« Reply #4974 on: April 29, 2021, 11:10:22 AM »

They are not needed.

I disagree - they will need to be available for a bit yet. It will likely be 15 years before Victoria and Dan's children are ready to step up and help. In the meantime, once Victoria is queen, she will need CP and Sofia to help out a bit.

Nah. Sweden might be twice the size of Norway but the NRF are more popular and they work well with only an old, sickly king, the queen, the crown prince and a sickly crown princess. Denmark gets on just fine with an elderly queen, a lazy crown prince, a crown princess and the odd supporting members.

In all three Scandinavian monarchies itís already been decided that in the future only the heir will be a working royal so the writing is on the wall. CP and Sofia is clinging on because heís daddyís favourite and they arenít keen on stepping back. They have understood the development though - thatís why they teased they might move abroad. They know they arenít needed.

I doubt anyone other than the friends and family of CP and Sofia would "miss them" if they decided to leave .... they are not the A grade of the RF. Vic has two children so CP as "spare heir" of a long time ago is not needed as such. And apparently he seems to have limited skills to find his own way in life career wise so of course he is happy to hang around ... it pays the bills. His father is prepared support him financially and otherwise - I imagine he will inherit enough money to see him out for his life.

All the non heirs need to know that the State will not support them and that they need to find a way to have a life that they chose but that also provides for their needs. I personally shake my head at people who are 40 or so still thinking daddy has to provide for them. My parents supported us through education but after that we needed to support ourselves - family would be there in an emergency but otherwise we were adults ...
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« Reply #4975 on: April 29, 2021, 11:29:23 AM »

IMO is Vic the best monarch-to-be in the scandinavian countries. Glamorous and regal if needed, sympathetic. devoted to the people and always well prepared. I don't see some change here the next 10 years and TBH I doubt they will abolish the monarchy while having the first queen of Sweden since forever. But who knows.
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« Reply #4976 on: April 29, 2021, 11:47:03 AM »

 Star Antevorta and Miss Marple for your thoughts on Madeleine - I 10000% agree. She can and should be able to do what she wants, and whatever she does do - she is criticized roundly which isn't fair because she isn't a drain on the Swedish taxpayers... I wish we saw more of her.
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Miss Marple

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« Reply #4977 on: April 29, 2021, 11:51:15 AM »

IMO is Vic the best monarch-to-be in the scandinavian countries. Glamorous and regal if needed, sympathetic. devoted to the people and always well prepared. I don't see some change here the next 10 years and TBH I doubt they will abolish the monarchy while having the first queen of Sweden since forever. But who knows.

I would see it in a bigger picture - if Norway or Denmark or the Netherlands started becoming republics, it might start start the neighbouring countries as well.

Frodo will be a very weak monarch and Mares is rather tone-deaf, but ambitious. We will see if they are able to rock the show. At least Christian looks very promising at the moment.
Hakoon will be "okayish". He is friendly but not a work-horse. MM does not count because of illness. IA is very nice, promising and has a very nice vibe - she might be paying the bill there by starting to work very early.
Wax and Max were very successful but they have ruined their early successes and lost a lot of sympathy. Also their kids are not as promising as Christian or -especially- IA.

We will see how the transition in Norway and Denmark works out. Wax seemed to be doing okay, but he has arrived in stormy water. And if people have started being critical, it is very hard to turn the tide again, especially in a relaxed and open-minded society where monarchy is more and obstacle than a logical consequence.

Back to Madde: I think it was a very clever decision to be in the USA - also for herself. I could imagine that not many people recognize her there - I bet most US Americans are surprised to learn that Sweden still has a monarch.


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« Reply #4978 on: April 29, 2021, 12:38:22 PM »

Madde takes no salary and helps with Childhood.  She's carrying on her moms legacy. She has a few charities she's active in.  She lives abroad and only attends the "main" royal events (similar to her aunts).  She does not get a salary from the government and is only paid for very infrequent events.

She's so far down the succession line it really shouldn't matter, and as Victorias children grow CP and Madde will fade into background. She's the least financially burdensome of the bunch, and taking an early cue on the fading. Why not?

She's still daughter of the king, sister to the future queen, aunt to the second future queen.

But i don't see the value in her having to stay and live in Sweden when her job is basically limited in scope already. Of course i understand how people might take that as a slight to a country that's given her so much. But i think in the long run having drawn the line that she's not a main member of the working royals is going to be beneficial.
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anneboleyn

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« Reply #4979 on: April 29, 2021, 02:47:27 PM »

With all the different monarchies slimming down, I sure hope none of these countries stop to think they donít need the monarchies at all! That would be horrible.
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ďAnd she will keep coming back to life, over and over again, because beneath the skin of this gentle human lives a warrior unstoppable.Ē - Annabelle M. Ramos
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