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Author Topic: Juan Carlos, Sofía, Elena and Cristina News and Activities  (Read 566822 times)
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thecrownjewelthief

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« Reply #2265 on: August 07, 2020, 05:15:05 PM »

Certain political groups wanted to kick JC out of Zarzuela and made lots of noise to damage the monarchy. The PM was under a lot of pressure to make a move to 'punish' JC. This is the best compromise between the government and the royal house. It's just more convenient for JC to live abroad than living inside Spain with paparazzis camping outside his door. In fact, He was rarely in Spain after he abdicated if not for this pandemic.

Sorry but you are wrong. This has nothing to do with Podemos (a left party in Spain which is part of the government) as it has nothing to do with a government of any leaning (conservative or progressive). It has 100% to do with Juan Carlos's corruption.  And I say corruption because whilst he didn't accept kick backs, he's been investigated for laundering money, ie, had offshore accounts which bypassed Spain's Internal Revenue (Hacienda).  He apparently set up accounts with his lover, Corinna, making sure no one - wife, children and tax department - could get the hands on money gifts from the Saudis.  Money gifts that were millions of euros.

THIS has nothing to do anti-monarchists groups, parties or the PM (for crying out loud).  THIS has to do with a man who thought he could do whatever he f###d want, and found out that he couldn't.  It's what happens in real democracies, no one is above the law including the king, something for which I'm truly proud of my country.



Why would Spanish authorities let him leave the country though?  Won't he be more difficult to arrest?  It seems this investigation has been in place since at least 2019 if not sooner.  If he had been arrested, then bailed, at least he couldn't have left the country (per U.S. laws) while a trial was prepared.  Wasn't there at least enough evidence to do that?

To me (admittedly a complete outsider to Spanish law & policy) it seems like a "show" investigation in that, yeah, they'll slooooowly line up all the ducks, but no one will end up shooting (arresting JC or actually prosecuting him) because of his age, health issues, whatever.  So they might get some small fry like Corinna to do time while JC just lives out his life, a disgraced ex-monarch, in exile, yes, but in conditions of luxury.  It doesn't seem like justice at all.  

As you say, you are an outsider to Spanish law....or any law under European jurisdiction.  Juan Carlos is being investigated by Swiss law, there are no charges against him Spain.

I wonder (and I suggest this as an outsider too) if there just isn't much of an appetite to arrest an elderly former king or assist another government in doing so? Sure, go after the daughter and her husband, but JC has been important in moving Spain forward, so they may have quietly let him leave so they wouldn't be faced with any extradition requests by the Swiss or something similar. It would definitely just cause further damage to the monarchy and Felipe to have a case pursued - maybe this was a way to offload JC to a place where he is no longer the problem of the Spanish government.
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ralf103

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« Reply #2266 on: August 07, 2020, 10:56:45 PM »

DM is saying he's in Dubai in a $13,000 a night presidential suite.  Guess he's managed to hide his ill gotten gains if he can spend that a night!

  I wonder if Dubai will hand him over to authorities if he's indicted. 

It says he is staying on one of the top 6 floors which are reserved exclusively for members of the UAE royal families. I suspect he is not paying at all but is staying as a "guest" of one of the RFs. I wonder if he plans to stay here or if this is just a distraction visit before sneaking into Dom Republic or Portugal as reported. Portugal would make sense as it is close enough to have family visits etc and close enough  if/when his health starts to fail he can come home for his final hours. Letting him pass away in UAE would make sure his "exile" was the first line of his obituary - it may be anyway but at least give it a chance.
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Paulina

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« Reply #2267 on: August 07, 2020, 11:43:21 PM »

Certain political groups wanted to kick JC out of Zarzuela and made lots of noise to damage the monarchy. The PM was under a lot of pressure to make a move to 'punish' JC. This is the best compromise between the government and the royal house. It's just more convenient for JC to live abroad than living inside Spain with paparazzis camping outside his door. In fact, He was rarely in Spain after he abdicated if not for this pandemic.

Sorry but you are wrong. This has nothing to do with Podemos (a left party in Spain which is part of the government) as it has nothing to do with a government of any leaning (conservative or progressive). It has 100% to do with Juan Carlos's corruption.  And I say corruption because whilst he didn't accept kick backs, he's been investigated for laundering money, ie, had offshore accounts which bypassed Spain's Internal Revenue (Hacienda).  He apparently set up accounts with his lover, Corinna, making sure no one - wife, children and tax department - could get the hands on money gifts from the Saudis.  Money gifts that were millions of euros.

THIS has nothing to do anti-monarchists groups, parties or the PM (for crying out loud).  THIS has to do with a man who thought he could do whatever he f###d want, and found out that he couldn't.  It's what happens in real democracies, no one is above the law including the king, something for which I'm truly proud of my country.



Why would Spanish authorities let him leave the country though?  Won't he be more difficult to arrest?  It seems this investigation has been in place since at least 2019 if not sooner.  If he had been arrested, then bailed, at least he couldn't have left the country (per U.S. laws) while a trial was prepared.  Wasn't there at least enough evidence to do that?

To me (admittedly a complete outsider to Spanish law & policy) it seems like a "show" investigation in that, yeah, they'll slooooowly line up all the ducks, but no one will end up shooting (arresting JC or actually prosecuting him) because of his age, health issues, whatever.  So they might get some small fry like Corinna to do time while JC just lives out his life, a disgraced ex-monarch, in exile, yes, but in conditions of luxury.  It doesn't seem like justice at all.  

As you say, you are an outsider to Spanish law....or any law under European jurisdiction.  Juan Carlos is being investigated by Swiss law, there are no charges against him Spain.

I wonder (and I suggest this as an outsider too) if there just isn't much of an appetite to arrest an elderly former king or assist another government in doing so? Sure, go after the daughter and her husband, but JC has been important in moving Spain forward, so they may have quietly let him leave so they wouldn't be faced with any extradition requests by the Swiss or something similar. It would definitely just cause further damage to the monarchy and Felipe to have a case pursued - maybe this was a way to offload JC to a place where he is no longer the problem of the Spanish government.

I think it's this, though I have no idea. I wonder how angry F&L are at the position he has put them in. Do you think he knew this about his dad? Does anyone have any idea of Filipe's personal relationships with his parents? Or sisters?

I hope they can hold Spain together. I sure don't want another Yugoslavia situation if regions finally break away.
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miliosr

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« Reply #2268 on: August 08, 2020, 01:17:44 AM »

To the extent anyone can benefit from such a sordid spectacle, I would say Letizia and Sofia are the beneficiaries. Letizia can contrast the family values and work ethic of the current Court and contrast those to the corruption of the former Court, and then use that contrast to marginalize the old Court (including Elena and Cristina) once and for all. Sofia benefits because she gets the satisfaction of seeing her son on the throne, being rid of her no-good husband and getting to play the wronged wife. So, irony of ironies, Letizia and Sofia may find themselves on the "winning" side in this mess (albeit for very different and perhaps contradictory reasons.)
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Chandrasekhi

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« Reply #2269 on: August 09, 2020, 06:20:33 PM »

Well, well, well: if only people would realise how mighty spousal privilege is  and how pillow-talk with paramours could end up in the wrong ears! JC's continued descent from grace to infamy makes a mighty case for fidelity.

1. The Case for Fidelity
Quote
https://www.dailymail.co....y-son-King-Felipe-VI.html
The 82-year-old revealed on Monday that he had decided to leave Spain to help his son, the current King Felipe VI, 'exercise his responsibilities'.
But sources claimed it was King Felipe who cast his father out to save his family from 'certain happenings' relating to Juan Carlos's relationship with his German mistress Corinna zu Sayn-Wittgenstein - with some fearing he might not come back.
Sayn-Wittgenstein has been placed under investigation in relation to audio recordings of a meeting between herself and retired Spanish police commissioner José Manuel Villarejo at her London home in 2015. In the recordings, she allegedly claimed Juan Carlos received a secret commission for helping to win a £5.5 billion Saudi rail deal. Villarejo asked for a meeting under the pretense that Spain's intelligence services were plotting to implicate her in criminal activity and went on to leak the tapes of their conversation to the media.
JC ratted out by his lover to save herself.

2. The Kickback/ Laundered Money
Quote
http://www.californiaspai...saudi-arabia&lang=es)
Spain will build and operate the high-speed rail between Medina and The Mecca, in Saudi Arabia
A consortium consisting of twelve Spanish and two Saudi enterprises, headed by ADIF and RENFE, will build and operate the high-speed railroad between Mecca and Medina, as Arabia Saudi authorities informed today.
….
The Spanish-Saudi consortium Al Shoula Group includes the three Spanish public companies, Adif, Renfe, Ineco (all of them under the authority of the Spanish Ministry of Public Works and Transportation), as well as Indra, OHL, Consultrans, Copasa, Imathia, Cobra, Dimetronic, Inabensa and TALGO, and the Saudi companies, Al Shoula and Al Rosan.
Scenario:  JC/Corinna was instrumental in landing the contract. The payback/kickback/fixer fee was included in the contract. The money flowed through Saudi Arabia to offshore accounts. To what extent was the government of the day (NOT the current) involved?
Incidentally, there have been two fires at one of the stations since the line was inaugurated in 2018. The line was suspended after the first fire.
https://www.presstv.com/D...eddahnocasualtiesreported

3. No extradition from the Dominican Republic
JC is now apparently in Abu Dabi. He is not a fugitive because no charges have been brought against him. If  charges are brought against him, he could still be safe in the Dominican Republic.
Quote
https://sturmernews.com/s...in-the-dominican-republic
In the extradition treaty between Spain and the Caribbean country, in its article 8, the following is stated: “Extradition will not be granted when the criminal responsibility has been extinguished by prescription or another cause, in accordance with the legislation of any of the Parties ». Therefore, based on this article, it would be very difficult for the Dominican State to grant Spain extradition if so required, because in that concept “other cause” there is any excuse. For Juan Carlos de Borbón, if the Justice demonstrates the collection of the AVE commissions to Mecca”
Does this mean that taxes have already paid on the monies in Saudi Arabia and JC would have been exempt from paying tax on it in Spain?

4. Should JC have been detained before flight
If it is true that Felipe cast his father out of the country, were he and the government guilty of enabling JC's flight? Apparently not: no charges have been brought against JC by a prosecutor before the Supreme Court in Spain - JC cannot be tried by a lower court as he is President-Emeritus. The investigation is in progress and JC has indicated that he will be returning to Spain at some stage i.e. he has left Spain temporarily but is not a fugitive from it.

5. Sofia
If Sofia had known about the Saudi Arabian cash-flows, I can't imagine her remaining silent about the incendiary device, waiting for it to blow up during Felipe's reign. Sofia's loyalty seems to be to her children first, her sister & Spain and pulling up the rear, JC:  for the way in which he treated her, JC deserved NO better.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 06:33:28 PM by Chandrasekhi » Logged

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« Reply #2270 on: August 09, 2020, 06:45:43 PM »

Well, well, well: if only people would realise how mighty spousal privilege is  and how pillow-talk with paramours could end up in the wrong ears! JC's continued descent from grace to infamy makes a mighty case for fidelity.

1. The Case for Fidelity
Quote
https://www.dailymail.co....y-son-King-Felipe-VI.html
The 82-year-old revealed on Monday that he had decided to leave Spain to help his son, the current King Felipe VI, 'exercise his responsibilities'.
But sources claimed it was King Felipe who cast his father out to save his family from 'certain happenings' relating to Juan Carlos's relationship with his German mistress Corinna zu Sayn-Wittgenstein - with some fearing he might not come back.
Sayn-Wittgenstein has been placed under investigation in relation to audio recordings of a meeting between herself and retired Spanish police commissioner José Manuel Villarejo at her London home in 2015. In the recordings, she allegedly claimed Juan Carlos received a secret commission for helping to win a £5.5 billion Saudi rail deal. Villarejo asked for a meeting under the pretense that Spain's intelligence services were plotting to implicate her in criminal activity and went on to leak the tapes of their conversation to the media.
JC ratted out by his lover to save herself.

2. The Kickback/ Laundered Money
Quote
http://www.californiaspai...saudi-arabia&lang=es)
Spain will build and operate the high-speed rail between Medina and The Mecca, in Saudi Arabia
A consortium consisting of twelve Spanish and two Saudi enterprises, headed by ADIF and RENFE, will build and operate the high-speed railroad between Mecca and Medina, as Arabia Saudi authorities informed today.
….
The Spanish-Saudi consortium Al Shoula Group includes the three Spanish public companies, Adif, Renfe, Ineco (all of them under the authority of the Spanish Ministry of Public Works and Transportation), as well as Indra, OHL, Consultrans, Copasa, Imathia, Cobra, Dimetronic, Inabensa and TALGO, and the Saudi companies, Al Shoula and Al Rosan.
Scenario:  JC/Corinna was instrumental in landing the contract. The payback/kickback/fixer fee was included in the contract. The money flowed through Saudi Arabia to offshore accounts. To what extent was the government of the day (NOT the current) involved?
Incidentally, there have been two fires at one of the stations since the line was inaugurated in 2018. The line was suspended after the first fire.
https://www.presstv.com/D...eddahnocasualtiesreported

3. No extradition from the Dominican Republic
JC is now apparently in Abu Dabi. He is not a fugitive because no charges have been brought against him. If  charges are brought against him, he could still be safe in the Dominican Republic.
Quote
https://sturmernews.com/s...in-the-dominican-republic
In the extradition treaty between Spain and the Caribbean country, in its article 8, the following is stated: “Extradition will not be granted when the criminal responsibility has been extinguished by prescription or another cause, in accordance with the legislation of any of the Parties ». Therefore, based on this article, it would be very difficult for the Dominican State to grant Spain extradition if so required, because in that concept “other cause” there is any excuse. For Juan Carlos de Borbón, if the Justice demonstrates the collection of the AVE commissions to Mecca”
Does this mean that taxes have already paid on the monies in Saudi Arabia and JC would have been exempt from paying tax on it in Spain?

4. Should JC have been detained before flight
If it is true that Felipe cast his father out of the country, wrre he and the government guilty of enabling JC's flight? Apparently not: no charges have been brought against JC by a prosecutor before the Supreme Court in Spain - JC cannot be tried by a lower court as he is President-Emeritus. The investigation is in progress and JC has indicated that he will be returning to Spain at some stage i.e. he has left Spain temporarily but is not a fugitive from it.

5. Sofia
If Sofia had known about the Saudi Arabian cash-flows, I can't imagine her remaining silent about the incendiary device, waiting for it to blow up during Felipe's reign. Sofia's loyalty seems to be to her children first, her sister & Spain and pulling up the rear, JC:  for the way in which he treated her, JC deserved NO better.

I agree with you there, although if she had real knowledge of illegal activities and kept silent then she’s earned some questioning.
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Paulina

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« Reply #2271 on: August 09, 2020, 09:28:40 PM »

Why would an aristocrat of Corrinna's stature talk? Don't they not do that?

Also, if he got a commission, why didn't he park it into Spain's government coffers to the benefit of the country? Isn't that what bringing business to the country and investment . . . I mean, wasn't that part of his job as king?

Sofia's in a difficult place. I can't imagine she was knowledgable about JC's goings on.
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miliosr

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« Reply #2272 on: August 11, 2020, 12:39:14 AM »

Sofia's loyalty seems to be to her children first, her sister & Spain and pulling up the rear, JC:  for the way in which he treated her, JC deserved NO better.
I would break out the first category even further and say that Sofia's first loyalty is to her son and then to the two infantas. Sofia is Frederica's daughter and Viktoria Louise's granddaughter. I don't think she would hesitate to do whatever is necessary to preserve her son's inheritance.
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« Reply #2273 on: August 11, 2020, 05:34:13 AM »

Sofia's loyalty seems to be to her children first, her sister & Spain and pulling up the rear, JC:  for the way in which he treated her, JC deserved NO better.
I would break out the first category even further and say that Sofia's first loyalty is to her son and then to the two infantas. Sofia is Frederica's daughter and Viktoria Louise's granddaughter. I don't think she would hesitate to do whatever is necessary to preserve her son's inheritance.

I totally agree: Felipe is number one  Star
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Princess MS

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« Reply #2274 on: August 11, 2020, 08:22:19 AM »

Why would an aristocrat of Corrinna's stature talk? Don't they not do that?

Her second marriage of about 5 years was to one but I don't think she was born one herself but she mixes in those circles. I think money is her chief interest

Also, if he got a commission, why didn't he park it into Spain's government coffers to the benefit of the country? Isn't that what bringing business to the country and investment . . . I mean, wasn't that part of his job as king?

Sofia's in a difficult place. I can't imagine she was knowledgable about JC's goings on.
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« Reply #2275 on: August 13, 2020, 07:07:14 PM »

Sofia's loyalty seems to be to her children first, her sister & Spain and pulling up the rear, JC:  for the way in which he treated her, JC deserved NO better.
I would break out the first category even further and say that Sofia's first loyalty is to her son and then to the two infantas. Sofia is Frederica's daughter and Viktoria Louise's granddaughter. I don't think she would hesitate to do whatever is necessary to preserve her son's inheritance.

and her own position.
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« Reply #2276 on: August 13, 2020, 07:32:36 PM »

Sofia's loyalty seems to be to her children first, her sister & Spain and pulling up the rear, JC:  for the way in which he treated her, JC deserved NO better.
I would break out the first category even further and say that Sofia's first loyalty is to her son and then to the two infantas. Sofia is Frederica's daughter and Viktoria Louise's granddaughter. I don't think she would hesitate to do whatever is necessary to preserve her son's inheritance.

and her own position.

There's nothing wrong with that.

After her children, her position is the only good thing to ever come out of her marriage to JC.

She's more than earned it at this point.
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ralf103

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« Reply #2277 on: August 13, 2020, 07:51:18 PM »

Given the fact JC is now parading around with a different mistress who has been with him for 40 odd years I am starting to feel quite sorry for Sofia. Her position is probably the only thing she has at this point. No wonder Felipe always seems to have a soft spot for her and allow her a lot of latitude. It ma have been different if her family still had a throne and active role to undertake but until very recently going back to Greece was never an option. Her life and position in Spain is all she has.
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« Reply #2278 on: August 13, 2020, 08:23:12 PM »

Why would an aristocrat of Corrinna's stature talk? Don't they not do that?

Her second marriage of about 5 years was to one but I don't think she was born one herself but she mixes in those circles. I think money is her chief interest

Also, if he got a commission, why didn't he park it into Spain's government coffers to the benefit of the country? Isn't that what bringing business to the country and investment . . . I mean, wasn't that part of his job as king?

Sofia's in a difficult place. I can't imagine she was knowledgable about JC's goings on.

I don't think Corrinna was born an aristocrat. She was married into an aristocratic family and had a son with him - but she has been airbrushed out of their family story. I'll link below - scroll down to Prince Casimir and scroll further to a picture of their son with his grandad. I'd say she's persona non grata there.
https://www.sayn.de/en/fu...rstenhaus/familie-aktuell
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« Reply #2279 on: August 13, 2020, 11:02:04 PM »

Why would an aristocrat of Corrinna's stature talk? Don't they not do that?

Her second marriage of about 5 years was to one but I don't think she was born one herself but she mixes in those circles. I think money is her chief interest

Also, if he got a commission, why didn't he park it into Spain's government coffers to the benefit of the country? Isn't that what bringing business to the country and investment . . . I mean, wasn't that part of his job as king?

Sofia's in a difficult place. I can't imagine she was knowledgable about JC's goings on.

I don't think Corrinna was born an aristocrat. She was married into an aristocratic family and had a son with him - but she has been airbrushed out of their family story. I'll link below - scroll down to Prince Casimir and scroll further to a picture of their son with his grandad. I'd say she's persona non grata there.
https://www.sayn.de/en/fu...rstenhaus/familie-aktuell

Yes, that is also what I heared about her....

Now I know why that son sounded so familiar. I was on this website of the Sayn family today To look up Casimirs younger sister who got married recently. Corinna's name wasn't mentioned at all, only that Casimir currently married to an US -Columbian lady has a son, Alexander, from a previous relationship
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