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Author Topic: The Royal Family of Russia  (Read 45080 times)
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Curtains

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« Reply #135 on: February 24, 2017, 04:06:38 PM »

Randomly researching something for a hobby, I found this article on the family of Tsar Nicholas II:

http://www.sciencemag.org...oyals-suffered-hemophilia

Highlights from the article (from my perspective):

  • The Tsarevitch (Alexei) had hemophilia Type B, which is far more rare than Type A;
    Alexandra (which we knew) was the carrier;
    Of the four daughters, only Anastasia was a carrier.

Helen Rappaport's book on the four daughters of Nicholas II was very specific on the point that Nicholas had put into motion a plan to name his eldest daughter as his heir after Alexei (or assuming Alexei's death before Nicholas').  Had Alexandra not gone totally around the bend (pretty well documented and the extended family really noticed it at Cowles in 1909), Olga could have been married and settled (possibly abroad) prior to the second revolution (Feb 1917) and even a mother of a child without hemophilia.  Same for Tatiana on that score.

The sheer cluelessness of the last 20 years of the dynasty is just breathtaking.

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« Reply #136 on: February 24, 2017, 04:29:29 PM »

Randomly researching something for a hobby, I found this article on the family of Tsar Nicholas II:

http://www.sciencemag.org...oyals-suffered-hemophilia

Highlights from the article (from my perspective):

  • The Tsarevitch (Alexei) had hemophilia Type B, which is far more rare than Type A;
    Alexandra (which we knew) was the carrier;
    Of the four daughters, only Anastasia was a carrier.

Helen Rappaport's book on the four daughters of Nicholas II was very specific on the point that Nicholas had put into motion a plan to name his eldest daughter as his heir after Alexei (or assuming Alexei's death before Nicholas').  Had Alexandra not gone totally around the bend (pretty well documented and the extended family really noticed it at Cowles in 1909), Olga could have been married and settled (possibly abroad) prior to the second revolution (Feb 1917) and even a mother of a child without hemophilia.  Same for Tatiana on that score.

The sheer cluelessness of the last 20 years of the dynasty is just breathtaking.



Wondering how it was determined that (only) Anastasia was a carrier of hemophilia.

Haemophilia A is a genetic deficiency in clotting factor VIII. About 5-10% of people with haemophilia A are affected because they make a dysfunctional version of the factor VIII protein, while the remainder are affected because they produced factor VIII in insufficient amounts (quantitative deficiency).Of those who have severe deficiency (defined as <1% activity of factor VIII), 45-50% have the same mutation, an inversion within the factor VIII gene that results in total elimination of protein production. Haemophilia A is inherited as an X-linked recessive trait, and occurs in males and in homozygous females (only possible in the offspring of a carrier female and a hemophilic male)

Since both forms of haemophilia can be caused by a variety of different mutations, initial diagnosis and classification is done by measurement of protein activity rather than by genetic tests, though genetic tests are recommended for testing of family members once a known case of haemophilia is identified. Approximately 30% of patients have no family history; their disease is presumably caused by new mutations.

Haemophilia B (or hemophilia B) is a blood clotting disorder caused by a mutation of the factor IX gene, leading to a deficiency of factor IX. It is the second-most common form of haemophilia, rarer than haemophilia A. Haemophilia B was first recognized as a different kind of haemophilia in 1952. Factor IX becomes active in coagulation, by cofactor factor VIII (specifically IXa) Platelets provide a binding site for both cofactors. This complex (in the coagulation pathway) will eventually activate factor X. It is an X-linked recessive trait, which explains why usually only males are affected.

Haemophilia C (also known as plasma thromboplastin antecedent (PTA) deficiency or Rosenthal syndrome) is a mild form of haemophilia affecting both sexes, due to factor XI deficiency. Hemophilia C is caused by a deficiency of coagulation factor XI and is distinguished from haemophilia A and B by the fact it does not lead to bleeding into the joints.

Haemophilia A occurs in approximately 1 in 5,000 males, while the incidence of haemophilia B is 1 in 30,000 in male population, of these, 85% have haemophilia A and 15% have hemophilia B.

Source: Wikipedia
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« Reply #137 on: February 24, 2017, 05:37:26 PM »

Not entirely sure how they determined the fact that Anastasia was the only carrier? As far as I know they did not do DNA testing on all remains and there was even arguments that one or two children were missing in the pile up. (gave much fodder to the Anastasia rumours - but I think quite reliable evidence was given that not all bodies had gone down the same well but into hiding places, some bodies also had burned more than others. I think I remember that Alexej's remains were rather well preserved though burned, but lack of body fat together with muddy and oxygen-poor soil don't aid in decomp.
In any case:
The girls' death was partly on their parents. Both the czarina and the czar had grossly misjudged the political mood and their own social elevation. They had falsely felt completely invincible and had not realized that there was no protection or adoration left, not even for the "innocence" of their children, who in the eyes of their enemies were neither innocent nor children any more, but both symbols of the status they had come to hate and future threats to the new system.
Sadly, had the parents not considered them "small" children totally dependent on their Mother and Father for their personal well being, then the girls could have been brought out of the country to safety. I don't think Russia would have granted the czarina leave, nor of course the czar and his heir.
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« Reply #138 on: February 24, 2017, 06:02:27 PM »

The article is pretty comprehensive about how they determined the type of hemophilia and the testing used to determine who had it.  Essentially, it goes to a gene mutation on F8 (for Hemophilia Type A) versus F9 (for Type B).

All of the bones/remains were DNA/genetically tested and typed, including the two bodies who were not with the main burial site, who were later determined to be to be Alexei and Maria.

Fairy, here's a good article discussing the two burial sites.  There were two bodies missing from the main burial site; a second burial site had the two remaining bodies.

https://www.theguardian.c...aug/25/russia.lukeharding

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« Reply #139 on: February 24, 2017, 09:44:41 PM »

I just get the feeling that even if Olga had been married she would have been living in Russia and would therefore have been trapped there in February 1917. If she had married into another branch of the extensive Romanov family both she and her husband and possibly any children would have perished.

Olga was born late in 1895 and was therefore only eighteen when World War One broke out. I know many Romanov daughters of previous generations married early but, even if Alexandra was the original smothering helicopter mum, would Olga necessarily have been married off at that age? Alexandra and her older daughters immediately threw themselves into war work from August 1914 onwards and a foreign match would have been pretty well impossible to arrange under wartime conditions, especially as Russia was at war with Germany where many of the Romanov brides had previously come from. Olga always said she didn't want to live anywhere else than in Russia.

I have read in the past that Maria had a dental procedure done in childhood and she bled so much during it that the dental surgeons conducting the operation panicked and only continued because Alexandra ordered them to.
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« Reply #140 on: February 27, 2017, 11:13:40 AM »

I just get the feeling that even if Olga had been married she would have been living in Russia and would therefore have been trapped there in February 1917. If she had married into another branch of the extensive Romanov family both she and her husband and possibly any children would have perished.

Olga was born late in 1895 and was therefore only eighteen when World War One broke out. I know many Romanov daughters of previous generations married early but, even if Alexandra was the original smothering helicopter mum, would Olga necessarily have been married off at that age? Alexandra and her older daughters immediately threw themselves into war work from August 1914 onwards and a foreign match would have been pretty well impossible to arrange under wartime conditions, especially as Russia was at war with Germany where many of the Romanov brides had previously come from. Olga always said she didn't want to live anywhere else than in Russia.

I have read in the past that Maria had a dental procedure done in childhood and she bled so much during it that the dental surgeons conducting the operation panicked and only continued because Alexandra ordered them to.

Interesting!
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« Reply #141 on: February 27, 2017, 11:15:01 AM »

Yes, that dental operation happened. I also recall that the DNA testing of the remains most likely to be Maria indicate she was a carrier. Or maybe Anastasia. Nobody agrees which is which!

Perhaps Maria had von Willebrand disease?
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« Reply #142 on: February 27, 2017, 01:30:32 PM »

Had a random thought: what about pairing "Grand Duke" George Mikhailovitch with Bea? The pretentiousness and money grubbing would require its own ceremony!
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« Reply #143 on: February 27, 2017, 01:41:15 PM »

Had a random thought: what about pairing "Grand Duke" George Mikhailovitch with Bea? The pretentiousness and money grubbing would require its own ceremony!

Resulting in a chubby child with bulging eyes and large teeth, oh dear.
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« Reply #144 on: February 27, 2017, 03:07:48 PM »

Had a random thought: what about pairing "Grand Duke" George Mikhailovitch with Bea? The pretentiousness and money grubbing would require its own ceremony!

Mrs Hohenzollern would orgasm in front of the world if this happened (sorry for the visual - have some brain bleach). It would blow Fergie's and Andy's mind, but they would be over the moon, except that Georgie Porgie is broke as hell in comparison to Bea's usual crowd.

Can't say that I think Liz and Phil would be good with it, though.
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« Reply #145 on: February 27, 2017, 03:13:25 PM »

Had a random thought: what about pairing "Grand Duke" George Mikhailovitch with Bea? The pretentiousness and money grubbing would require its own ceremony!

Mrs Hohenzollern would orgasm in front of the world if this happened (sorry for the visual - have some brain bleach). It would blow Fergie's and Andy's mind, but they would be over the moon, except that Georgie Porgie is broke as hell in comparison to Bea's usual crowd.

Can't say that I think Liz and Phil would be good with it, though.

ex Mrs Hohenzollern, as they are divorced >30 years ago (if I am correct)

Wikipedia:
"...In Madrid on 22 September 1976, Maria married Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia,[7] her third cousin, once-removed. He is a Hohenzollern great-grandson of Germany's last emperor Wilhelm II and a great-great-great grandchild of Victoria, Queen of the United Kingdom. Franz Wilhelm converted to the Orthodox faith prior to the wedding, taking the name Michael Pavlovich and receiving the title of a Grand Duke of Russia from Maria's father.[Crazy[9]

The couple separated in 1982, a year after the birth of their only child George Mikhailovich, who had been granted the title Grand Duke of Russia at birth by his grandfather Vladimir. Following the divorce on 19 June 1985, Franz Wilhelm reverted to his Prussian name and style.[4]..."
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« Reply #146 on: February 27, 2017, 03:21:34 PM »

a gem found on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do00VD5d3a4
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« Reply #147 on: February 27, 2017, 06:04:07 PM »

Had a random thought: what about pairing "Grand Duke" George Mikhailovitch with Bea? The pretentiousness and money grubbing would require its own ceremony!

Mrs Hohenzollern would orgasm in front of the world if this happened (sorry for the visual - have some brain bleach). It would blow Fergie's and Andy's mind, but they would be over the moon, except that Georgie Porgie is broke as hell in comparison to Bea's usual crowd.

Can't say that I think Liz and Phil would be good with it, though.

ex Mrs Hohenzollern, as they are divorced >30 years ago (if I am correct)

Wikipedia:
"...In Madrid on 22 September 1976, Maria married Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia,[7] her third cousin, once-removed. He is a Hohenzollern great-grandson of Germany's last emperor Wilhelm II and a great-great-great grandchild of Victoria, Queen of the United Kingdom. Franz Wilhelm converted to the Orthodox faith prior to the wedding, taking the name Michael Pavlovich and receiving the title of a Grand Duke of Russia from Maria's father.[Crazy[9]

The couple separated in 1982, a year after the birth of their only child George Mikhailovich, who had been granted the title Grand Duke of Russia at birth by his grandfather Vladimir. Following the divorce on 19 June 1985, Franz Wilhelm reverted to his Prussian name and style.[4]..."

I know all that. My use of it is my tongue in cheek opposition of styling herself the only grand duchess and her stupid stance the she's the only real imperial Romanov. Horse hockey to her, I say.
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« Reply #148 on: February 27, 2017, 06:20:08 PM »

Had a random thought: what about pairing "Grand Duke" George Mikhailovitch with Bea? The pretentiousness and money grubbing would require its own ceremony!

Mrs Hohenzollern would orgasm in front of the world if this happened (sorry for the visual - have some brain bleach). It would blow Fergie's and Andy's mind, but they would be over the moon, except that Georgie Porgie is broke as hell in comparison to Bea's usual crowd.

Can't say that I think Liz and Phil would be good with it, though.

ex Mrs Hohenzollern, as they are divorced >30 years ago (if I am correct)

Wikipedia:
"...In Madrid on 22 September 1976, Maria married Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia,[7] her third cousin, once-removed. He is a Hohenzollern great-grandson of Germany's last emperor Wilhelm II and a great-great-great grandchild of Victoria, Queen of the United Kingdom. Franz Wilhelm converted to the Orthodox faith prior to the wedding, taking the name Michael Pavlovich and receiving the title of a Grand Duke of Russia from Maria's father.[Crazy[9]

The couple separated in 1982, a year after the birth of their only child George Mikhailovich, who had been granted the title Grand Duke of Russia at birth by his grandfather Vladimir. Following the divorce on 19 June 1985, Franz Wilhelm reverted to his Prussian name and style.[4]..."

I know all that. My use of it is my tongue in cheek opposition of styling herself the only grand duchess and her stupid stance the she's the only real imperial Romanov. Horse hockey to her, I say.

Sorry  Blush

I assumed you already knew it and how you mend it.......but my reply was a bit too lecturing  Blush
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« Reply #149 on: February 27, 2017, 06:20:57 PM »

Had a random thought: what about pairing "Grand Duke" George Mikhailovitch with Bea? The pretentiousness and money grubbing would require its own ceremony!

Mrs Hohenzollern would orgasm in front of the world if this happened (sorry for the visual - have some brain bleach). It would blow Fergie's and Andy's mind, but they would be over the moon, except that Georgie Porgie is broke as hell in comparison to Bea's usual crowd.

Can't say that I think Liz and Phil would be good with it, though.



ex Mrs Hohenzollern, as they are divorced >30 years ago (if I am correct)

Wikipedia:
"...In Madrid on 22 September 1976, Maria married Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia,[7] her third cousin, once-removed. He is a Hohenzollern great-grandson of Germany's last emperor Wilhelm II and a great-great-great grandchild of Victoria, Queen of the United Kingdom. Franz Wilhelm converted to the Orthodox faith prior to the wedding, taking the name Michael Pavlovich and receiving the title of a Grand Duke of Russia from Maria's father.[Crazy[9]

The couple separated in 1982, a year after the birth of their only child George Mikhailovich, who had been granted the title Grand Duke of Russia at birth by his grandfather Vladimir. Following the divorce on 19 June 1985, Franz Wilhelm reverted to his Prussian name and style.[4]..."

I know all that. My use of it is my tongue in cheek opposition of styling herself the only grand duchess and her stupid stance the she's the only real imperial Romanov. Horse hockey to her, I say.

Ms. Romanov (formerly known as Mrs. Hohenzollern) Wink
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