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Author Topic: Pippa moving on to bigger and better things?  (Read 835276 times)
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just a serf

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« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2011, 07:34:23 PM »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the extreme focus on class distinction, who belongs where and who is overstepping their class boundary is disturbing to say the least. Its 2011 not 1811.

2011 in the UK is not the same as 2011 in the USA. You may be a citizen but average Brits are citizens and commoners  Thumb down
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« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2011, 07:48:41 PM »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the extreme focus on class distinction, who belongs where and who is overstepping their class boundary is disturbing to say the least. Its 2011 not 1811.

 Had either of the Middleton sisters ever actually done anything worth discussing other than slept with well known/ well heeled gentlemen then this discussion wouldn't be taking place.It really isn't that difficult to keep yourself out of the papers/gossip columns - the Spencers did it practically the entire time Diana was married to Charles, the Rhys-Jones' manage it, the Kelly's manage it, the Tindall's manage it etc. etc.....theres a reasons the Midds can't and it aint good deeds done.

All IMO of course

That may be the case. It seems that the Middleton's not being "Upper-Class" or "Aristocratic" is a big sticking point for alot of people and I don't understand that. There are many reasons to like or dislike the sisters but IMO the fact that they have ancestors who were miners and Carol was a stewardess shouldn't be one of them. All of the brides that were suggested for William instead of Kate were girls from the aristocracy or upper upper class. Why would they have made better choices, because their money is older? I guess there is a difference in UK & US society. I don't think one is superior to the other but its hard for me to wrap my brain around the fact that someone is better or worse than another human being because they came out of a "Lady's" womb instead of a regular "Miss or Mrs" womb.
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« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2011, 08:03:27 PM »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the extreme focus on class distinction, who belongs where and who is overstepping their class boundary is disturbing to say the least. Its 2011 not 1811.

 Had either of the Middleton sisters ever actually done anything worth discussing other than slept with well known/ well heeled gentlemen then this discussion wouldn't be taking place.It really isn't that difficult to keep yourself out of the papers/gossip columns - the Spencers did it practically the entire time Diana was married to Charles, the Rhys-Jones' manage it, the Kelly's manage it, the Tindall's manage it etc. etc.....theres a reasons the Midds can't and it aint good deeds done.

All IMO of course

That may be the case. It seems that the Middleton's not being "Upper-Class" or "Aristocratic" is a big sticking point for alot of people and I don't understand that. There are many reasons to like or dislike the sisters but IMO the fact that they have ancestors who were miners and Carol was a stewardess shouldn't be one of them. All of the brides that were suggested for William instead of Kate were girls from the aristocracy or upper upper class. Why would they have made better choices, because their money is older? I guess there is a difference in UK & US society. I don't think one is superior to the other but its hard for me to wrap my brain around the fact that someone is better or worse than another human being because they came out of a "Lady's" womb instead of a regular "Miss or Mrs" womb.

The whole idea of monarchy rests on the fact that some people are considered better than others. That's why "subjects" have to curtsey or bow to show reverence to their royals. The class system is alive and well in the U.S. too. We just don't use titles to distinguish between the classes. Trust me, if Wills, Freddy, Wax, etc. had been regular guys, no one would care about them because they would not be considered special.
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« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2011, 08:08:43 PM »

And if Michael and Carol were the Duke and Duchess of Buckleberry with 3 lovely children the Ladies Catherine and Phillipa and Lord James, there would be very little focus on the girls work history. I don't think there would such a need for them to prove their worth.
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« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2011, 08:45:15 PM »

And if Michael and Carol were the Duke and Duchess of Buckleberry with 3 lovely children the Ladies Catherine and Phillipa and Lord James, there would be very little focus on the girls work history. I don't think there would such a need for them to prove their worth.

And yet among the aristocracy, and those who have married into it,there have been those who have worked extremely hard.
Lady Catherine Percy is a mechanic
Zara is an equestrian
Peter is a banker
Viscount Lindley is a furniture designer and chairman of Christy's
Countess Ulster is a a doctor (married the son and heir of the Duke of Gloucester) and her husband is active in the military, saw action in Kosovo
Lady Rose Gilman is an art assistant in the film industry, and worked on one of the Harry Potter movies
Lady St. Andrews (the Canadian wife of the heir of the Duke of Kent) is a historian and fellow at Camebridge, director of studies of history and political science at the University of Camebridge and is a fellow of the royal historical society
James Oglivy runs a magazine and his wife is a business woman who also serves on the Scottish Executive for community charities
Lord Frederick has held a few jobs but he is now a financial analyst for JP Morgan in London
Lady Gabriella used to work in journalism after graduatin from Brown, but is now studying for PHD in anthro from Oxford University


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« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2011, 08:51:25 PM »

And if Michael and Carol were the Duke and Duchess of Buckleberry with 3 lovely children the Ladies Catherine and Phillipa and Lord James, there would be very little focus on the girls work history. I don't think there would such a need for them to prove their worth.

Totally agree with you.

Quote
And yet among the aristocracy, and those who have married into it,there have been those who have worked extremely hard.
Lady Catherine Percy is a mechanic
Zara is an equestrian
Peter is a banker
Viscount Lindley is a furniture designer and chairman of Christy's
Countess Ulster is a a doctor (married the son and heir of the Duke of Gloucester) and her husband is active in the military, saw action in Kosovo
Lady Rose Gilman is an art assistant in the film industry, and worked on one of the Harry Potter movies
Lady St. Andrews (the Canadian wife of the heir of the Duke of Kent) is a historian and fellow at Camebridge, director of studies of history and political science at the University of Camebridge and is a fellow of the royal historical society

Good for them. There are also those who don't work at all. I'm sure we can list dozens of other aristocrats who do precisely nothing and just enjoy their privileges and status all day.
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« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2011, 10:13:38 PM »

When tax money that you have paid is being diverted from education, creating employment, infrastructure, national health etc. to pay for the lifestyle and security of a bunch of people then I don't think that its too much to ask that said people at least show some sort of effort in earning that money and showing a bit of gratitude.

I personally don't give a fig about aristocrats and their work ethic - a woman to whom I am supposed to show reverence, a woman to whom I am supposed to curtsey if I ever meet her, a woman whom I am bankrolling - her I care about.

Whether she likes it or not Kate is now a PAID representative of Britain and a Britain that is on its knees with a huge number of its inhabitants out of work/fearing for their jobs etc. Laziness is not an option. Worrying only about pleasing William is no longer an option.

As for Pippa - couldn't give a rats arse about her..someone suggested that perhaps she only dated within the upper classes/aristo set because these were the people she grew up with and I was merely pointing out that she wouldn't have grown up with these people but would only have started moving in their circles after her sisters romance with William started...and I stand by my ascertion that had Pippa done something other than be Kates sister and date aristos then we could talk about that but rather like her sister...theres just not a lot else to discuss.
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tudorfan

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« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2011, 10:28:57 PM »

And if Michael and Carol were the Duke and Duchess of Buckleberry with 3 lovely children the Ladies Catherine and Phillipa and Lord James, there would be very little focus on the girls work history. I don't think there would such a need for them to prove their worth.

And yet among the aristocracy, and those who have married into it,there have been those who have worked extremely hard.
Lady Catherine Percy is a mechanic
Zara is an equestrian
Peter is a banker
Viscount Lindley is a furniture designer and chairman of Christy's
Countess Ulster is a a doctor (married the son and heir of the Duke of Gloucester) and her husband is active in the military, saw action in Kosovo
Lady Rose Gilman is an art assistant in the film industry, and worked on one of the Harry Potter movies
Lady St. Andrews (the Canadian wife of the heir of the Duke of Kent) is a historian and fellow at Camebridge, director of studies of history and political science at the University of Camebridge and is a fellow of the royal historical society
James Oglivy runs a magazine and his wife is a business woman who also serves on the Scottish Executive for community charities
Lord Frederick has held a few jobs but he is now a financial analyst for JP Morgan in London
Lady Gabriella used to work in journalism after graduatin from Brown, but is now studying for PHD in anthro from Oxford University




Diana was a kindergarten teacher too, so I agree, just because you're an aristocrat doesn't mean you shouldn't get a job. 
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tudorfan

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« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2011, 10:38:21 PM »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the extreme focus on class distinction, who belongs where and who is overstepping their class boundary is disturbing to say the least. Its 2011 not 1811.

 Had either of the Middleton sisters ever actually done anything worth discussing other than slept with well known/ well heeled gentlemen then this discussion wouldn't be taking place.It really isn't that difficult to keep yourself out of the papers/gossip columns - the Spencers did it practically the entire time Diana was married to Charles, the Rhys-Jones' manage it, the Kelly's manage it, the Tindall's manage it etc. etc.....theres a reasons the Midds can't and it aint good deeds done.

All IMO of course

That may be the case. It seems that the Middleton's not being "Upper-Class" or "Aristocratic" is a big sticking point for alot of people and I don't understand that. There are many reasons to like or dislike the sisters but IMO the fact that they have ancestors who were miners and Carol was a stewardess shouldn't be one of them. All of the brides that were suggested for William instead of Kate were girls from the aristocracy or upper upper class. Why would they have made better choices, because their money is older? I guess there is a difference in UK & US society. I don't think one is superior to the other but its hard for me to wrap my brain around the fact that someone is better or worse than another human being because they came out of a "Lady's" womb instead of a regular "Miss or Mrs" womb.

I often wondered if William just settled for Kate because all the aristocrats' daughters didn't need the aggravation of being married to the BRF's.   I think Isabella Calthorpe, a beautiful aristocrat, turned down his advances when he broke up with Kate.  Who knows how many others did as well?  BTW, Isabella works as an actress, and she does charity work as well.

I agree that whether commoner or atristocrat, that doesn't make you better or worse.  I know many "commoners" that have shown much more morals, dignity, and kindness than these so called pathetic royals, like Fergie, Charles, etc. . .
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« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2011, 10:43:51 PM »

I think that, ultimately, Waity is a good match for William.

She's rather dull, uninspiring, and she's proven that she is the perfect doormat.  In this relationship, Willie can have her bear the heirs without having to worry if she's happy, content and satisfied because, even if she is unhappy, she's not going anywhere.  In a Windsor marriage, this might be the best solution.

She really needs to work though.  Britain is on its knees.  For her and Willie to take off for two weeks, renting an entire island.  Fine if they're paying for it (although I assume the taxpayers stump up for the security) but it's not a good look.  In hard times, royalty should set the example. 
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« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2011, 11:00:34 PM »

 Good post freethespoon

I think she will be rather popular when she begins to work.
She is boring but maybe the BRF needs that. But I see the press gets nervous and disappointed.  Tongue
Hey, but they supported her, so... Now they bring all the Middleton stories which they didn´t released to have at least scandals.
They should begin with Uncle Gary 

Heard now that Chelsy is very jealous of Pippa and she forbid Harry to talk about her. Rumours, but who knows?
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« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2011, 11:49:15 PM »


That may be the case. It seems that the Middleton's not being "Upper-Class" or "Aristocratic" is a big sticking point for alot of people and I don't understand that. There are many reasons to like or dislike the sisters but IMO the fact that they have ancestors who were miners and Carol was a stewardess shouldn't be one of them. All of the brides that were suggested for William instead of Kate were girls from the aristocracy or upper upper class. Why would they have made better choices, because their money is older? I guess there is a difference in UK & US society. I don't think one is superior to the other but its hard for me to wrap my brain around the fact that someone is better or worse than another human being because they came out of a "Lady's" womb instead of a regular "Miss or Mrs" womb.
[/quote]
Many suggested may have been aristocracy but most have done something with their lives, beyond wait for a husband. IMO that is the sticking point, now how common she is.

Lady Edwina Grovesnor: daughter of the Duke of Westminster is personal assistant to the Bishop Jones in his capacity of Bishop of prisons, and is a philanthropist who beyond her job, has devoted a great deal of charity work to the criminal justice system. (married to Dan Snow)
Alexandra Knatchbull: daughter of the 8th Baron Brabourne, she has a degree in theology from Oxford, and went on for a masters in international security at Georgetown.
Arabella Musgrave: she is head of PR for Prada.

Some like Arabella don't have aristocratic blood, do come from money, and with connections. They have shown a desire to work, or give to charity. I think it is one thing IMO if you are the daughter of a minor earl or such and you do little but live off your family money. But if you are married to someone as high profile as the son of the heir to the throne of England, people likely expect a bit more. I don't care if she is a commoner, but yes some work or charitable ethic would be a bit more impressive. The heir of the Duke of Kent married a college professor, and the heir of the Duke of Gloucester married a doctor, both commoners, but both with succesful careers and more going for them.

But he probably has a harder time. Being the Duchess of Kent, you'd likely not have to give up being a profesor. The members who are active are being scaled down, and the Kents and Gloucesters of the next generation, will have more private lives. William's bride not so much.
Good post freethespoon

I think she will be rather popular when she begins to work.
She is boring but maybe the BRF needs that. But I see the press gets nervous and disappointed.  Tongue
Hey, but they supported her, so... Now they bring all the Middleton stories which they didnīt released to have at least scandals.
They should begin with Uncle Gary 

Heard now that Chelsy is very jealous of Pippa and she forbid Harry to talk about her. Rumours, but who knows?


ITA, I think once Kate starts taking on some charities of her own, and being shown working, she will bepopular. Most peple don't seem to have a real problem with her, except her lack of work ethic. If she starts working, and showing she is devoted to her new position, public opinion should go up.
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« Reply #72 on: May 18, 2011, 01:29:44 AM »

When tax money that you have paid is being diverted from education, creating employment, infrastructure, national health etc. to pay for the lifestyle and security of a bunch of people then I don't think that its too much to ask that said people at least show some sort of effort in earning that money and showing a bit of gratitude.

I personally don't give a fig about aristocrats and their work ethic - a woman to whom I am supposed to show reverence, a woman to whom I am supposed to curtsey if I ever meet her, a woman whom I am bankrolling - her I care about.

Whether she likes it or not Kate is now a PAID representative of Britain and a Britain that is on its knees with a huge number of its inhabitants out of work/fearing for their jobs etc. Laziness is not an option. Worrying only about pleasing William is no longer an option.

As for Pippa - couldn't give a rats arse about her..someone suggested that perhaps she only dated within the upper classes/aristo set because these were the people she grew up with and I was merely pointing out that she wouldn't have grown up with these people but would only have started moving in their circles after her sisters romance with William started...and I stand by my ascertion that had Pippa done something other than be Kates sister and date aristos then we could talk about that but rather like her sister...theres just not a lot else to discuss.
I love you and your posts a little bit more everyday.  Star when it is possible.

Personally I couldn't care less if Kate was an aristo or not. I find it really tedious that her class/status is brought into the debate when for most people the issue is her laziness. Or at least that's the case amongst people I know. 
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« Reply #73 on: May 18, 2011, 06:05:20 AM »


I love you and your posts a little bit more everyday.  Star when it is possible.

Personally I couldn't care less if Kate was an aristo or not. I find it really tedious that her class/status is brought into the debate when for most people the issue is her laziness. Or at least that's the case amongst people I know. 
[/quote]

I agree, all the arguments I have seen have been about her lack of worth ethic. It has become the norm it seems to marry commoners among the royalty of late. I think aristos really only come up, because since Will is royal, many of the women he will have associated with and dated, will be from that class.
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« Reply #74 on: May 18, 2011, 07:35:26 AM »


I love you and your posts a little bit more everyday.  Star when it is possible.

Personally I couldn't care less if Kate was an aristo or not. I find it really tedious that her class/status is brought into the debate when for most people the issue is her laziness. Or at least that's the case amongst people I know. 

I agree, all the arguments I have seen have been about her lack of worth ethic. It has become the norm it seems to marry commoners among the royalty of late. I think aristos really only come up, because since Will is royal, many of the women he will have associated with and dated, will be from that class.
[/quote]

The very beginning of this thread was about the Middletons being "social climbers" and how they are interacting with people above their station in life with Kate bagging William and Pippa going after the future Duke of Northumberland or whatever his title is and all the other aristos the Midd socialize with.  I do believe that Kate being "lazy" is an issue for many people, I get that and totally understand that, especially for those who pay taxes to suppport the royals. But its pretty late in the game to act like that is the main reason most people find the Middleton's distasteful when there are countless negative comments here about Midds, their humble beginnings and rise to the top.
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