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Author Topic: Savoy Royal Family  (Read 13498 times)
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ortensia

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« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2016, 08:45:10 AM »

i think eating good pasta is a treat everyone should be allowed to,it's not only for us lucky italian or for those people with money that,abroad,can go to the best italian restaurants.
so the fact emanuele filiberto is actually offering ready to eat pasta in a parking lot is not a sacrilege,it's just a proof of our italian no nonsense way of being there where there is need of good spaghetti.
he is not daydreaming about being king again, which is very sensible, but he is a prince and can use his title as this is not a forbidden thing in italy where,even if we are republicans, noble people still keep their titles and there is nothing strange about it.
i also think americans are more starstruck by ancient european nobility than we jaded ancient european are,so i guess naming his truck prince of venice can be a sly move to gain customers.

ciao,for those of us still at work:let's have a productive week, for those already at the beach: enjoy! Beer
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ortensia

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« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2016, 03:40:54 PM »

http://www.noblesseetroya...a-famille-royale-ditalie/
Greetings card from Emanuele Filiberto di Savoia and family Smiley


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Elissa

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« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2017, 07:11:34 PM »

Queen Elena of Italy's remains are going to be transferred to Vico Forte in Piemont near to her husband King Vittoria Emmanuele III's grave.
Elena died and was buried until now in Montpellier, France.


http://www.midilibre.fr/2...oint-l-italie,1603602.php

Translation : http://www.microsofttrans...nt-l-italie%2C1603602.php
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« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2017, 08:06:55 PM »

Queen Elena of Italy's remains are going to be transferred to Vico Forte in Piemont near to her husband King Vittoria Emmanuele III's grave.
Elena died and was buried until now in Montpellier, France.


http://www.midilibre.fr/2...oint-l-italie,1603602.php

Translation : http://www.microsofttrans...nt-l-italie%2C1603602.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_of_Montenegro
Elena is an intriguing historical character from an equally intriguing family - the Montenegrans. The family married into the royal houses of Russia, Italy, and Serbia. http://www.njegos.org/petrovics/family.htm
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Celia

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« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2017, 02:01:11 AM »

Don't forget --one of her sisters even married a Battenberg, the youngest, Franz Josef.  Apparently Edwina Mountbatten sent her a check every month during her long widowhood. 

I agree --VERY interesting family.
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Arturo94

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« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2017, 07:34:51 AM »

Queen Elena of Italy's remains are going to be transferred to Vico Forte in Piemont near to her husband King Vittoria Emmanuele III's grave.
Elena died and was buried until now in Montpellier, France.


http://www.midilibre.fr/2...oint-l-italie,1603602.php

Translation : http://www.microsofttrans...nt-l-italie%2C1603602.php

Vittorio Emanuele III is not buried in Italy. Wink  His tomb is in Egypt. Today it was announced that, as his wife, his tomb will be moved in Italy, near Torino.
Actually I find all these “secret” moves a little bit desprectful towards a previous head of state of the country. Moreover I think that both their tombs should be moved in Pantheon in Rome were all Kings of Italy are buried.

EDIT: I read that the article said his tomb was in Egypt sorry. Blush His corpse is arriving today
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 08:12:52 AM by Arturo94 » Logged

Tatini

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« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2017, 08:58:18 AM »

I respect your opinion, dear Arturo, 🙂but I think that a king who signed the antisemitic bill against the Jews on sept 5, 1938,during the  fascist dictatorship, does not deserve the honor of being buried with the other Italian monarchs in the Pantheon. In my opinion, the republic is already very generous in letting him and queen ELENA rest together in the sanctuary where the Savoy dukes are usually buried.
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Arturo94

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« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2017, 01:52:57 PM »

I respect your opinion, dear Arturo, but I think that a king who signed the antisemitic bill against the Jews on sept 5, 1938,during the  fascist dictatorship, does not deserve the honor of being buried with the other Italian monarchs in the Pantheon. In my opinion, the republic is already very generous in letting him and queen ELENA rest together in the sanctuary where the Savoy dukes are usually buried.

I agree with you Tatini about that and I am not defending it  Smiley However I think that the situation was way more difficult back then... I remember to have understood that situation better with my high school professor. He decided to makes us study the WWII in Italy on the real documents. A good sinthesis (in Italian unluckily) could be find here   http://archiviostorico.bl...uestione-ebraica.html?m=1.

I agree with you about the King and how bad was his weakness against Mussolini and this is a matter of fact but I started to think that the situation was way more tangled. Just my opinion of course and I can totally understand your and see your point  Wink
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Tatini

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« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2017, 02:52:09 PM »

Thank you Arturo Hug Star
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Arturo94

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« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2017, 02:53:48 PM »

Thank you Arturo Hug Star

Thanks to you Tatini  Champagne Hug
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pixiecat
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« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2017, 04:47:18 PM »

I respect your opinion, dear Arturo, 🙂but I think that a king who signed the antisemitic bill against the Jews on sept 5, 1938,during the  fascist dictatorship, does not deserve the honor of being buried with the other Italian monarchs in the Pantheon. In my opinion, the republic is already very generous in letting him and queen ELENA rest together in the sanctuary where the Savoy dukes are usually buried.

I completely agree.  Star

There is NO acceptable defense of his action.  None whatsoever.  And anybody who does so needs to check themselves as they are actually defending fascism, nazis, and the holocaust. Shocked  It baffles the mind that anybody would do this in this day and age where we all know EXACTLY what happened.  Crazy
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pixiecat
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« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2017, 04:50:16 PM »

I respect your opinion, dear Arturo, but I think that a king who signed the antisemitic bill against the Jews on sept 5, 1938,during the  fascist dictatorship, does not deserve the honor of being buried with the other Italian monarchs in the Pantheon. In my opinion, the republic is already very generous in letting him and queen ELENA rest together in the sanctuary where the Savoy dukes are usually buried.

I agree with you Tatini about that and I am not defending it  Smiley However I think that the situation was way more difficult back then... I remember to have understood that situation better with my high school professor. He decided to makes us study the WWII in Italy on the real documents. A good sinthesis (in Italian unluckily) could be find here   http://archiviostorico.bl...uestione-ebraica.html?m=1.

I agree with you about the King and how bad was his weakness against Mussolini and this is a matter of fact but I started to think that the situation was way more tangled. Just my opinion of course and I can totally understand your and see your point  Wink

You're right-it was way more tangled.  For the millions of innocent Jews who fell victim to this "tangle".   Shocked  

There is no acceptable defense for the actions of anybody who allowed this to happen.  There is no acceptable defense for anything anybody did to support Mussolini, the fascists, and ultimately the nazis.  I mean, seriously?  What this guy did is beyond horrible and I don't believe he ever made any reparations for his actions.  I might be able to understand if he spent the rest of his life trying to atone for this, but he did not.  Thumb down Thumb down Thumb down Thumb down

« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 06:08:31 PM by pixiecat » Logged
Countess of Cows

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« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2017, 05:13:10 PM »

Thanks so much for all the information, the stories are so interesting and educational.   Star A big reason I love this board  Champagne

Tragedy and evil touches all.  Her death is truly horrific.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...Princess_Mafalda_of_Savoy

 during World War II, Adolf Hitler believed Princess Mafalda was working against the war effort; he called her the "blackest carrion in the Italian royal house". So did Hitler's Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels, who called her "the worst bitch [grösste Rabenaas] in the entire Italian royal house".[3

1943, Princess Mafalda travelled to Bulgaria to attend the funeral of her brother-in-law, King Boris III. While there, she was informed of Italy's surrender to the Allied Powers, that her husband was being held under house arrest in Bavaria, and that her children had been given sanctuary in the Vatican. The Gestapo ordered her arrest, and on 23 September she received a telephone call from Hauptsturmführer Karl Hass at the German High Command, who told her that he had an important message from her husband. On her arrival at the German embassy, Mafalda was arrested, ostensibly for subversive activities. Princess Mafalda was transported to Munich for questioning, then to Berlin, and finally to Buchenwald concentration camp.

. The conditions of the labour camp caused her arm to become infected, and the medical staff at the facility amputated it; she bled profusely during the operation and never regained consciousness. She died during the night of 26–27 August 1944;

In 1997, the Italian government honored Princess Mafalda with her image on a postal stamp
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Arturo94

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« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2017, 07:05:14 PM »

I respect your opinion, dear Arturo, but I think that a king who signed the antisemitic bill against the Jews on sept 5, 1938,during the  fascist dictatorship, does not deserve the honor of being buried with the other Italian monarchs in the Pantheon. In my opinion, the republic is already very generous in letting him and queen ELENA rest together in the sanctuary where the Savoy dukes are usually buried.

I agree with you Tatini about that and I am not defending it  Smiley However I think that the situation was way more difficult back then... I remember to have understood that situation better with my high school professor. He decided to makes us study the WWII in Italy on the real documents. A good sinthesis (in Italian unluckily) could be find here   http://archiviostorico.bl...uestione-ebraica.html?m=1.

I agree with you about the King and how bad was his weakness against Mussolini and this is a matter of fact but I started to think that the situation was way more tangled. Just my opinion of course and I can totally understand your and see your point  Wink

You're right-it was way more tangled.  For the millions of innocent Jews who fell victim to this "tangle".   Shocked  

There is no acceptable defense for the actions of anybody who allowed this to happen.  There is no acceptable defense for anything anybody did to support Mussolini, the fascists, and ultimately the nazis.  I mean, seriously?  What this guy did is beyond horrible and I don't believe he ever made any reparations for his actions.  I might be able to understand if he spent the rest of his life trying to atone for this, but he did not.  Thumb down Thumb down Thumb down Thumb down



If my post made it out in this way I am sorry because it was not my intention. My post was only about the role/actions of the King and not of course justifying the murder of Jewish people. If it came out this way sorry... it was not my intention. I hope that Tatini did not intend it in this way. My “things were tangled” was about the fact if some people and situations could easily been defined as black or white other cannot. JMO.
And no! I am not defending fascism, nazis, and the holocaust!

However  as Countess of Cows wrote the daughter of Mafalda of Savoy, daughters of VEIII, died in a terrible death at Buchenwald.
And while people discuss about the fact the Vittorio Emanuele should be buried at the Pantheon or in Torino, Mussolini’s granddaughter was sitting in the Italian Parliament and Europarliament saying up and down how her granddaddy was amazing. For me this is really worse and disprectful.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 07:21:09 PM by Arturo94 » Logged

Kaiserin

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« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2017, 07:22:59 PM »

Arturo, I think you are right in saying that the situation of the Jews under Mussolinis antisemitic laws, as ratified by Vittorio Emanuele III, was different from the situation of the Jews in Germany back then. First, there were only about 50,000 Jews in Italy. Most of them even supported Mussolini for a very long time. As long as both Mussolini and Vittorio Emanuele were in power, there were no concentration camps, no death sentences - that all only started when Italy surrendered to the Allies and Germany invaded the north of Italy - it were the Germans who deported and murdered the Jews of Italy.
Mussolini "just" arrested or exiled Jews and antifascists to Southern Italy - maybe some of you know the famous book "Christ stopped at Eboli" - it's the work of Carlo Levi, an exiled Jew from Torino, and it's autobiographical.

I don't write that to defend the (then without any doubt existing) Italian fascism, or any of the actions of Vittorio Emanuele, I just want to point out that the European History in the years before and during World War Two was VERY complex and I think that Vittorio Emanuele had reasons to believe that to give this signature was the better solution than to deny it. Vittorio Emanuele was at that time the only one, in his role as King, who had a certain contitutional power to hold Mussolini back. Not signing that bill would have meant giving that up in the last consequence (as Mussolini might have abandoned the Monarchy by coup), which VE might have considered even worse, fearing that all hell would brake loose then, as Mussolini was clearly dangerous and eager to please Hitler.
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