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Author Topic: Savoy Royal Family  (Read 22875 times)
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Tatini

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« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2017, 07:45:44 PM »

Arturo and I disagree on whether Vittorio Emanuele iii deserved the honor of being buried with the other Italian monarchs. I never thought that Arturo was condoning antisemitism. I believe that Vittorio Emanueleís criminal
Complacency towards the regime canít be justified in any way and I am glad that he wonít be buried as a king. As for a reading, iíd suggest Primo leviís If this is a man. He was from my hometown, a Jew from
Torino, who ended up in Auschwitz in 1943.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 08:10:29 PM by Tatini » Logged
pixiecat
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« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2017, 09:13:48 PM »

Arturo, I think you are right in saying that the situation of the Jews under Mussolinis antisemitic laws, as ratified by Vittorio Emanuele III, was different from the situation of the Jews in Germany back then. First, there were only about 50,000 Jews in Italy. Most of them even supported Mussolini for a very long time. As long as both Mussolini and Vittorio Emanuele were in power, there were no concentration camps, no death sentences - that all only started when Italy surrendered to the Allies and Germany invaded the north of Italy - it were the Germans who deported and murdered the Jews of Italy.
Mussolini "just" arrested or exiled Jews and antifascists to Southern Italy - maybe some of you know the famous book "Christ stopped at Eboli" - it's the work of Carlo Levi, an exiled Jew from Torino, and it's autobiographical.

I don't write that to defend the (then without any doubt existing) Italian fascism, or any of the actions of Vittorio Emanuele, I just want to point out that the European History in the years before and during World War Two was VERY complex and I think that Vittorio Emanuele had reasons to believe that to give this signature was the better solution than to deny it. Vittorio Emanuele was at that time the only one, in his role as King, who had a certain contitutional power to hold Mussolini back. Not signing that bill would have meant giving that up in the last consequence (as Mussolini might have abandoned the Monarchy by coup), which VE might have considered even worse, fearing that all hell would brake loose then, as Mussolini was clearly dangerous and eager to please Hitler.

Uhm, that's pretty f*^king horrible too.  Shocked  They don't deserve credit for not sending anybody directly to a camp.  What they did is absolutely completely horrible on its own.  I've no doubt the situation was complex, but arresting and exiling people because of their ethnic and religious background is disgusting and unacceptable, even if a government to the north was doing far worse. 

I don't think the guy's rotten corpse deserves to take up space in an honored grave, but that's just my opinion. 
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Kaiserin

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« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2017, 10:52:55 PM »

I didn't give anyone credit for their actions, I just pointed out that antisemitism had different graduations of horror in fascist Europe.
That is a historical fact, for sure it's not an excuse.

I have often wondered how I would have perceived politics and the development in Europe between, say, 1920 and 1945, would I have lived in those times. And what I would have done or could have done, not having today's hindsight.
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esther angeline

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« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2017, 12:28:20 AM »



I have often wondered how I would have perceived politics and the development in Europe between, say, 1920 and 1945, would I have lived in those times. And what I would have done or could have done, not having today's hindsight.

 Star I too have wondered this as well for this and other crucial turning points in history. I hope I would have had the wisdom and courage to have done the right thing.
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Celia

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« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2017, 10:16:46 PM »

Emmanuele has been to a couple of major royal events in the last week or so --without wife and kids.  I would have thought that the girls would at least attend the reburial, as a dynastic occasion.  The older one is nearly 14, surely old enough to "handle" something like this.

I wonder if all is well in their family.
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jigmesjigga

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« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2017, 11:02:30 PM »

Do they even live together? I was under the impression that Emanuele Fili did his own thing and Clothilde and the girls lived in Paris.
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CyrilSebastian

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« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2019, 11:52:52 PM »

Prince Emanuele Filiberto is the heir of Prince Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples.   
Prince Emanuele Filiberto has two daughters: Princess Vittoria and Princess Luisa.   
Is Princess Vittoria recognized as the heiress of Prince Emanuele Filiberto?
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Oh_Caroline

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« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2019, 11:58:38 PM »

Prince Emanuele Filiberto is the heir of Prince Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples.   
Prince Emanuele Filiberto has two daughters: Princess Vittoria and Princess Luisa.   
Is Princess Vittoria recognized as the heiress of Prince Emanuele Filiberto?

IIRK the House of Savoy is male (and male-lines) only for succession.
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fruela

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« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2019, 04:17:05 PM »

There is a feud between both pretenders, Vittorio Emanuele and  and prince Amedeo de Aosta. Tricky troubly. A few punches and the court of justice but luckily  no rising in arms.
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Principessa

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« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2019, 06:35:37 PM »

wasn't there also the prediction that former queen Marie Josť received from a priest / something like that? That her line within the Savoy family would lose the succession?
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CyrilSebastian

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« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2019, 08:59:23 PM »

Prince Emanuele Filiberto is the heir of Prince Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples.   
Prince Emanuele Filiberto has two daughters: Princess Vittoria and Princess Luisa.   
Is Princess Vittoria recognized as the heiress of Prince Emanuele Filiberto?

IIRK the House of Savoy is male (and male-lines) only for succession.
     
   
Then who is the male heir of Prince Emanuele Filiberto?
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fruela

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« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2019, 09:38:20 PM »

Prince Emanuele Filiberto is the heir of Prince Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples.   
Prince Emanuele Filiberto has two daughters: Princess Vittoria and Princess Luisa.   
Is Princess Vittoria recognized as the heiress of Prince Emanuele Filiberto?

IIRK the House of Savoy is male (and male-lines) only for succession.
     
   
Then who is the male heir of Prince Emanuele Filiberto?
AFIK, Prince Amadeo de Aosta.Salic law.
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CyrilSebastian

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« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2019, 03:49:56 AM »

On July 7, 2006 Prince Amadeo, Duke of Aosta declared himself Duke of Savoy.
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Celia

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« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2019, 04:38:30 PM »

The contention between the two branches is that Vittorio Emanuele married against family rules and his father's wishes, thereby making said marriage invalid and his son ineligible. 
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CyrilSebastian

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« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2019, 02:29:10 AM »

Prince Emanuele Filiberto appeared in a television commercial for a brand of olives, in which he said they make you "feel like a king".
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