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Author Topic: The Yorks - News  (Read 1601663 times)
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SvenskaSarah

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« Reply #10620 on: December 27, 2019, 12:07:53 AM »

IIRC Andrew's lease runs from 2003--2078.  It is structured in such a way that he can not make any monetary gain on the value of the property.  The lease can only be reassigned to his widow, his daughters or a trust established in their benefit.

Let's be real...if he enjoys a similar longevity to his parents he could easily live until some time in the 2050s (90+).  At which time his daughters would be in their 60s and should be well established on their own...own residences not in a London palace (sorry girls but you got to go).  Also the BRF, and feeling towards the family, will have had another 30+ years of development and evolution.

I'd love to know how much "help" Andrew receives from mummy to cover household expenses because lord knows that will change under Charles and if the rumors about how William feels about Andrew are true there's no way he'll pay for Andy (or his cousins) to live in luxury.  The girls also wouldn't be able to afford any substantial renovation or upkeep, let alone extending the lease further.

My guess...either once Andrew dies, or possibly when Charlotte or Louis marries, the York branch will give up the lease and either Charlotte or Louis will untake a new lease.  Royal Lodge can not be lease on a completely commercial basis because of the Royal Chapel of All Saints so a royal lease is the best we're ever going to see.

HM will most likely have to pony up to keep Andrew in the style to which he has become accustomed since all of his shady business dealings are being investigated. He may find he needs to give up the lease sooner than later. I can't see Bea or Eugenie wishing to live there either.

As to Louis or Charlotte's occupancy, it all will depend on who is or isn't going to be a working royal. IIRC when Charles first bandied about his plan for a slimmed down monarchy neither of his sons were married. He may want to start extrapolating this out and figuring out what to do with the royal residences in the future. If it's not occupied by a member of the BRF it will need to be mothballed or used as Frogmore is.


I can see Charlotte and Louis being working royals, maybe not their kids. It sounds slightly cruel, but maybe Wills and Kate could learn from the current problem of who should be a working royal/HRH/receive income from the Crown and not have a fourth child. Or at least the BRF should review the Letters Patent Act and firmly reiterate what the plan is for the future of the BRF, as Sweden recently did.
If entirely honest, I don't think the Andrew problem will be solved while QEII is alive. I support Eugenie and Beatrice finding their own way, such as the anti-slavery collective (I'll leave any comments about Andrew's involvement with human/child trafficking here) or other causes that they could work for, for example how Princess Madeleine works for Childhood which is not affiliated with her 'royal' calendar. I do not see a need to punish those two for their parent's actions.

Could someone enlighten me, I've been wondering for a while, but can royal dukedoms be revoked? I know it was the divorce settlement, but I am really surprised Sarah is still Duchess of York. Should Andrew remarry to someone else, will wife no.2 be titled 'Duchess of York', or by one of Andrew's lesser titles?


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Oh_Caroline

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« Reply #10621 on: December 27, 2019, 12:16:08 AM »

Peerages, royal or otherwise,  can only be revoked by Act of Parliament. 

Any wife (regardless of number) is HRH The Princess/Duchess/Countess of Whatever while a ex wife (divorce) is NN, Princess/Duchess/Countess of Whatever until she remarries.  The only time a “lesser” title has been used is for Camilla because although she his HRH The Princess of Wales the fit the public would have thrown would have been epic so they did the smart thing with HRH The Duchess of Cornwall.
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« Reply #10622 on: December 27, 2019, 12:44:01 AM »

A response to earlier posts. Both girls held receptions at St james's palace recently, did their charity  events/Christmas events that doesnt necessairly screamed shunned by the family/connections to me.
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« Reply #10623 on: December 27, 2019, 12:50:15 AM »

The BRF really is deaf.  Probably a good thing they don't hear the freight train coming I guess.
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« Reply #10624 on: December 27, 2019, 02:12:39 AM »

The BRF really is deaf.  Probably a good thing they don't hear the freight train coming I guess.

....maybe that's because they're blinded by the freight train's headlights  Blink

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« Reply #10625 on: December 27, 2019, 03:10:38 AM »

The BRF really is deaf.  Probably a good thing they don't hear the freight train coming I guess.

....maybe that's because they're blinded by the freight train's headlights  Blink

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 Star Star for both of you.  It'll be too late by the time they realize what was coming at them...
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« Reply #10626 on: December 27, 2019, 03:32:56 AM »

Royal Lodge would be lovely for Charlotte and her family unless she wants out of the family business. Which honestly Beatrice and Eugenie should get out of. I think the family invited Edo to Christmas because they know with the Andy sh*tshow they need to keep him close so that he and Beatrice make it to the alter. Smart move but uncle Charles needs to sit down with the girls and say we love you and think that you should keep your patronages as long as they will have you but we now need to make room for William's family to fill up most of the space. They need to go quietly there is no future for them. I think they are basically decent people who are probably definitely spoiled and clueless but they are becoming wives and soon mothers and this is just a natural point to say the train stops here but we'll see you at the Christmas lunch next year.

I think she should follow Anne’s example when the time comes and choose a private home.  Otherwise, it’s a continuation of how it’s done now with minor Royals hanging on.  If Charles gets his way George’s line would be the only working Royals, correct?
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« Reply #10627 on: December 27, 2019, 03:54:04 AM »

I believe so...the monarch (William), children of the monarch (George, Charlotte, Louis), children of the heir (George's kids), and previous working royals still able/willing/wanted/etc. (Harry).  Oh and spouses...well at least Catherine, George's wife, and George's eldest child's spouse.  I'd like to see it limited even further to just the monarch and future monarch(s) plus spouses but that probably won't happen.

My second guess for Royal Lodge is that it will either be used by The Dowager (if any) or The Heir (if an adult)...just like Clarence House.  Royal Lodge (like Frogmore House) can't be let commercially because of the chapel (Frogmore because of the burial ground) so someone living in it makes sense.  Now while Highgrove is owned by the Duchy of Cornwall it doesn't have the same security concerns so the Duchy of Cornwall can really do whatever with it...it doesn't have to be the heir's country home.
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« Reply #10628 on: December 27, 2019, 05:48:19 AM »

Royal Lodge won't be available for close on 50 years (that is how long Andrew has paid the lease for). I remember when the government checked out the payment and worked out that the girls would both be in their 80s when the lease expires. Bagshot it even longer as Edward took at a 99 year lease while Andrew only paid for a 75 year lease. Those leases have already been paid in full to cover those years.
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« Reply #10629 on: December 27, 2019, 01:00:25 PM »

IMO, as the Gloucesters and Kents will be retired and Will's kids are still too young, there could be some space for Bea and Eug for the next 10-15 years, but I don't think it will happen. Thankfully, Eug seems to stand on her own feet (with the help of her name and title, of course) but Bea is like a feather in the wind. Both girls have money and trustfunds and being secured financially is a big thing but when someone lacks of character and vision for their own life, then there's a problem and imo Bea has a problem, she needs stability and clear lines. Edo doesn't seem as someone who could offer her anything like this, more like he offers her the delusion of a family, but even with someone on her side, she needs to become her own person. Does this make sesne? If not, apologies. I'm trying to say that Bea has a long way to go and, given her path so far, I don't see it coming.
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« Reply #10630 on: December 27, 2019, 01:32:55 PM »

IMO, as the Gloucesters and Kents will be retired and Will's kids are still too young, there could be some space for Bea and Eug for the next 10-15 years, but I don't think it will happen. Thankfully, Eug seems to stand on her own feet (with the help of her name and title, of course) but Bea is like a feather in the wind. Both girls have money and trustfunds and being secured financially is a big thing but when someone lacks of character and vision for their own life, then there's a problem and imo Bea has a problem, she needs stability and clear lines. Edo doesn't seem as someone who could offer her anything like this, more like he offers her the delusion of a family, but even with someone on her side, she needs to become her own person. Does this make sesne? If not, apologies. I'm trying to say that Bea has a long way to go and, given her path so far, I don't see it coming.

I understand your perspective ... but I'd also put the same on Eugenie... she married a nice boy from a connected family... he did not go the "city" path as he did not apparently have the smarts .... As for Edo let's see .... the "old" family's would never have linked up with the BRF .... they want their sons and daughters to do better than that  ..... Will and Harry married the best they could get. Nothing wrong with that.... so do most people
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« Reply #10631 on: December 27, 2019, 02:58:33 PM »

IMO, as the Gloucesters and Kents will be retired and Will's kids are still too young, there could be some space for Bea and Eug for the next 10-15 years, but I don't think it will happen. Thankfully, Eug seems to stand on her own feet (with the help of her name and title, of course) but Bea is like a feather in the wind. Both girls have money and trustfunds and being secured financially is a big thing but when someone lacks of character and vision for their own life, then there's a problem and imo Bea has a problem, she needs stability and clear lines. Edo doesn't seem as someone who could offer her anything like this, more like he offers her the delusion of a family, but even with someone on her side, she needs to become her own person. Does this make sesne? If not, apologies. I'm trying to say that Bea has a long way to go and, given her path so far, I don't see it coming.

I understand your perspective ... but I'd also put the same on Eugenie... she married a nice boy from a connected family... he did not go the "city" path as he did not apparently have the smarts .... As for Edo let's see .... the "old" family's would never have linked up with the BRF .... they want their sons and daughters to do better than that  ..... Will and Harry married the best they could get. Nothing wrong with that.... so do most people
I see what you're saying and it's probably true. At the end of the day, no matter what we want and who we are, our choices tell all about us, we are what we choose so good or bad, this is it. If we want to change, we have to make different choices in life.
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SvenskaSarah

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« Reply #10632 on: December 29, 2019, 02:10:17 AM »

Peerages, royal or otherwise,  can only be revoked by Act of Parliament. 

Any wife (regardless of number) is HRH The Princess/Duchess/Countess of Whatever while a ex wife (divorce) is NN, Princess/Duchess/Countess of Whatever until she remarries.  The only time a “lesser” title has been used is for Camilla because although she his HRH The Princess of Wales the fit the public would have thrown would have been epic so they did the smart thing with HRH The Duchess of Cornwall.

Thank you for the information ☺ so hypothetically speaking, if Andrew was to remarry, the wife would receive the duchess of York and Andrew's other titles, what title would Sarah have, or would it be revoked by act of Parliament? (sorry if I seem a bit slow on the uptake, Ive thought about this to the point where I'm confusing myself!)

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« Reply #10633 on: December 29, 2019, 02:42:13 AM »

Peerages, royal or otherwise,  can only be revoked by Act of Parliament.  

Any wife (regardless of number) is HRH The Princess/Duchess/Countess of Whatever while a ex wife (divorce) is NN, Princess/Duchess/Countess of Whatever until she remarries.  The only time a “lesser” title has been used is for Camilla because although she his HRH The Princess of Wales the fit the public would have thrown would have been epic so they did the smart thing with HRH The Duchess of Cornwall.

Thank you for the information ☺ so hypothetically speaking, if Andrew was to remarry, the wife would receive the duchess of York and Andrew's other titles, what title would Sarah have, or would it be revoked by act of Parliament? (sorry if I seem a bit slow on the uptake, Ive thought about this to the point where I'm confusing myself!)

If Andrew were to remarry, his new wife would become HRH The Duchess of York.  Sarah is not The Duchess of York, she is Sarah, Duchess of York, with "Duchess of York" being only a courtesy title and essentially a surname since the legal right to the title ended when her marriage to the Duke ended. "The Duchess of York" is a legal title to which the wife of a Duke of York is entitled during her marriage to the Duke.  Unless Andrew marries a much younger woman and has a son with her, if he predeceases her the new Duchess would continue to be entitled to use the title HRH The Duchess of York until her death or such time as she remarries.  If they did have a son, she would be entitled to retain that title until such time as the son marries because the son's wife would then become The Duchess of York and his mother would become known as HRH The Dowager Duchess of York.  
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« Reply #10634 on: December 29, 2019, 02:43:57 AM »

Peerages, royal or otherwise,  can only be revoked by Act of Parliament. 

Any wife (regardless of number) is HRH The Princess/Duchess/Countess of Whatever while a ex wife (divorce) is NN, Princess/Duchess/Countess of Whatever until she remarries.  The only time a “lesser” title has been used is for Camilla because although she his HRH The Princess of Wales the fit the public would have thrown would have been epic so they did the smart thing with HRH The Duchess of Cornwall.

Thank you for the information ☺ so hypothetically speaking, if Andrew was to remarry, the wife would receive the duchess of York and Andrew's other titles, what title would Sarah have, or would it be revoked by act of Parliament? (sorry if I seem a bit slow on the uptake, Ive thought about this to the point where I'm confusing myself!)



Andrew's wife would be HRH The Duchess of York and Sarah would still be Sarah, Duchess of York until SHE remarries regardless of what Andrew does.  A wife (or ex in Sarah's case) technically holds her title by courtesy.  A courtesy title has no legal significance but is just the custom (courtesy)...so no Parliament would not be involved.  Technically there's nothing stopping Sarah from simply going back to Sarah Ferguson whenever she wants to.  If/when a divorcee remarries it would be customary for her to be Mrs. New Husband.

Here's an example...The Right Honourable The Earl and Countess Spencer got divorce in 1997, you had The Right Honourable The Earl Spencer and Victoria, Countess of Spencer.  The Earl remarries in 2001, so you had The Right Honourable The Earl and Countess Spencer (2nd wife) and Victoria, Countess of Spencer.  In 2005 Victoria remarries and is then Mrs. Jonathan Aitken. 

The Act of Parliament is only for the holder of the peerage.  In this case Andrew.  But the probability of that happening is slim to none considering that Parliament has better thing to do, Andrew has yet to be charged let alone convicted of anything, and the last time such an Act was passed was in WWI for enemies of the country (https://en.wikipedia.org/...tles_Deprivation_Act_1917).
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