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Author Topic: Tudor-Talk  (Read 7980 times)
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ginnis1
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« on: November 16, 2011, 03:23:06 PM »

A coupl of us talked about it so I thought I would start a thread.
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 03:40:55 PM »

Thank you for starting this topic! Star
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digitalkat

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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2011, 04:19:06 PM »

Who else thinks Anne Boleyn's  cat and mouse games blew the fuse in Henry VIII's brain?
 
I think his views towards marriage became totally messed up after Anne Boleyn. He easily became tired afterwards and nothing could excite him anymore.
Hence his manic wife-changing.
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[coeur / heart]

This word refers to all kinds of movements and
desires, but what is constant is that the heart is
constituted into a gift-object — whether ignored
or rejected.

--Roland Barthes, "Fragments D'un Discours Amoureux"
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2011, 11:05:09 PM »

This may have been the tipping point for Henry.  Nerves
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2011, 11:38:13 PM »

Who else thinks Anne Boleyn's  cat and mouse games blew the fuse in Henry VIII's brain?
 
I think his views towards marriage became totally messed up after Anne Boleyn. He easily became tired afterwards and nothing could excite him anymore.
Hence his manic wife-changing.

I donīt think his frantic wife search was caused by Anne Boleyn.
I think he was desperate because he needed a male heir. Anne Boleyn didnīt produce one, so he "had" to move on same as he did from Katherine of Aragon to Anne, then from Anne to Jane Seymour. In the first place, he probably would have stayed married to Katherine if she had produced a male heir/s, and had some mistresses on the side. Why he had Anne executed (horrible!!) is most likely because he did NOT want to go through years and years of divorce proceedings as he had with Katherine. Better to get it over with in a heartbeat, and "modest" Jane was waiting in the wings, practically stepping over the body of Anne to marry her king!
Jane, whom he allegedly loved very much, did give birth to a living son - but SHE died. I think that devastated him. In my opinion he became wacko due to that mostly - and accumulated horrors, as for instance having your wife and the mother of your daughter beheaded!!
Anne of Cleves was nothing but a side note - I think he was pressured into that marriage by the "grey" men of his time; they felt it necessary to secure the throne with more heirs than just the one. After the fiasco with her, he chose himself a silly little girl, Kathryn Howard. Poor Kathryn. Beheaded too...
The last wife, Katherine Parr, was engaged when the king proposed to her, and she was NOT interested in the king at all, but she had no choice but to marry him. She married the man she loved and was engaged to after Henry died. She walked on eggshells during the marriage to Henry and managed to keep her head on her shoulders.
I think it was far more complicated than Anneīs games, and I think it is giving her credit for more power than she had.
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digitalkat

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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 01:59:02 AM »


I donīt think his frantic wife search was caused by Anne Boleyn.
I think he was desperate because he needed a male heir. Anne Boleyn didnīt produce one, so he "had" to move on same as he did from Katherine of Aragon to Anne, then from Anne to Jane Seymour. In the first place, he probably would have stayed married to Katherine if she had produced a male heir/s, and had some mistresses on the side. Why he had Anne executed (horrible!!) is most likely because he did NOT want to go through years and years of divorce proceedings as he had with Katherine. Better to get it over with in a heartbeat, and "modest" Jane was waiting in the wings, practically stepping over the body of Anne to marry her king!
Jane, whom he allegedly loved very much, did give birth to a living son - but SHE died. I think that devastated him. In my opinion he became wacko due to that mostly - and accumulated horrors, as for instance having your wife and the mother of your daughter beheaded!!
Anne of Cleves was nothing but a side note - I think he was pressured into that marriage by the "grey" men of his time; they felt it necessary to secure the throne with more heirs than just the one. After the fiasco with her, he chose himself a silly little girl, Kathryn Howard. Poor Kathryn. Beheaded too...
The last wife, Katherine Parr, was engaged when the king proposed to her, and she was NOT interested in the king at all, but she had no choice but to marry him. She married the man she loved and was engaged to after Henry died. She walked on eggshells during the marriage to Henry and managed to keep her head on her shoulders.
I think it was far more complicated than Anneīs games, and I think it is giving her credit for more power than she had.

I often wonder if Katherine Parr was haunted by her brief union with Henry VIII, and if Katherine of Aragon lamented to God why He let her marriage turn out so badly despite her charitable deeds and devotion to her faith.
Especially Katherine of Aragon, she was clearly a nice lady with a kind heart, perhaps too kind.

Henry VIII would have been a delicious target for tabloids had they existed back then. I don't think there was any other monarch throughout world history who imposed so much drama on himself as he did.
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[coeur / heart]

This word refers to all kinds of movements and
desires, but what is constant is that the heart is
constituted into a gift-object — whether ignored
or rejected.

--Roland Barthes, "Fragments D'un Discours Amoureux"
Kuei Fei
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 07:54:54 AM »

Who else thinks Anne Boleyn's  cat and mouse games blew the fuse in Henry VIII's brain?
 
I think his views towards marriage became totally messed up after Anne Boleyn. He easily became tired afterwards and nothing could excite him anymore..

the thing is, that Anne taught him how to be an absolute monarch, how to literally throw off counsel and how to go by instinct, his instincts that weren't always sound. She egged him on to murder Thomas More, Cardinal Fisher, ended up killing monks who refused the Oath and ended up destroying his daughter's life and bringing his nation to the brink of invasion by the Emperor. She taught him how to end up doing things his way and making the law of the land what he wanted it to be. There was a huge turning point in regards to how monarchs ran things and the one thing I remember the most is that he created laws if that is what it took to get things done his way. Anne triggered all of that and then in the end, Henry turned on her and was so sick of her constant nagging, yelling, pushing, pressure to kill his own daughter no less.

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Hence his manic wife-changing

And deciding to end up choosing what did and did not make a legal marriage.
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Such a pity that bedroom gymnastics isn't an Olympic event; Kate would have been a gold medalist of several years standing.
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2019, 11:29:16 PM »

In 1513 King Henry VIII invaded France with papal authority. Pope Julius II had been opposed to France since King Louis XII had ordered a General Council of the Church in 1511 in direct opposition to the Pope. Julius II denied Louis XII's title of Most Christian King. The Pope agreed to bestow the title on Henry VIII if Henry conquered France.
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 08:41:02 PM »

I am obsessed with all things Tudor and love talking about it!
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CyrilSebastian

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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2019, 11:37:12 PM »

In the autumn of 1532 King Henry VIII went over to France to meet King Francis I, accompanied by a vast retinue. Henry had brought Anne Boleyn with him on this state visit, not Queen Catherine of Aragon. As a result, neither Francis I's wife, Queen Eleonore nor his sister Marguerite attended.
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2019, 05:26:54 AM »

I've always been a Plantagenet fan...

The best book about Anne Boleyn, i.e. the most insightful about what we think we know about her, has been Susan Bordo's book "The Creation of Anne Boley" for me. It's nearly impossible to see her as real person, so many projections over the years, so many stereotypes, have shaped our view. Bordo interviewed some of the actresses who portrayed her over the years.

In my eyes, Anne Boleyn was a victim of Henry VIII no less than Catherine of Aragon and all the other wives were. They had very little room to manoever or to exert any power of their own.

Henry VIII was a brutal stalker and nowadays, he'd be treated like Weinstein etc. It's amazing how the standards of behaviour have changed.

Is there a Tudor I like? Can't think of one now...
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CyrilSebastian

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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2019, 11:01:33 PM »

In order to process important cases quickly and decisively, King Henry VII revived the Court of Star Chamber, in which members of the Privy Council made rapid and often ruthless legal determinations in defense of royal prerogatives.
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CyrilSebastian

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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2019, 01:30:40 AM »

Having sent out his writs to members of Parliament, Henry VII had himself crowned at Westminster Abbey on October 30, a week before Parliament met on November 7, 1485. There was thus no possibility of Parliament's claiming to have made Henry King by their consent, by agreeing to honor his right by conquest or descent.
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2019, 10:49:10 PM »

The private marriage of Anne Boleyn and King Henry VIII         
http://www.alamy.com/stoc...-of-england-25144171.html
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2019, 10:48:31 PM »

King Henry VIII married Catherine of Aragon in the church of the Observant Friars outside Greenwich Palace on June 11, 1509. The two witnesses were Lord Steward Shrewsbury and the groom of the privy chamber, William Thomas.
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